Just an observation…..

[dogbig]

Not trying to start any trouble but lots of reports lately talk of keeping females, and lots of them. I know its legal to keep’em and the VA potters are gobbling them up by the barrel right now, but it seems that releasing females is the easiest way to ensure future harvest.

I would think that these are recently mated sooks (from all the doubler action going on) fattening up for the migration south to lay eggs next spring.

db

[b dog]

it is my understanding that mature females are allowed to be kept if they do not have egg sacs. because they will not live to mate another season. was posted here that they may change that to allow keeping girls with eggs. some study i think va. it was claims they die once taken out of water. i am in no hurry to start that .

[flames]

It takes males to help make future crabs too but we eat them.
do male crabs out number females by alot? when i go i seperate them in 2 baskets and start culling all females when i can but sometimes the boys arent on the line.

[POLECAT]

http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKx gXPPn%3F87KR6xqpxQQoPxP0oxlJlxv8uOc5xQQQoeoGnoQeGG qpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPPn%7CRup6eGJ%7C/of=50,470,443

This takes place every day, both in MD & VA.

[b dog]

just to try to get this right,some females/sooks may mate 2 times and few make 3rd. maybe i should rethink my ways. whats to do when after you cull them all ya got are a few jims and a bushel of sooks? it is legal,is it right? man i do not know,figure MDNR would not allow it if bad idea. good ?

[Water_boy]

Dang, my fingers are sore just looking at that basket.

[fisheyed]

Females only mate one time but may store sperm and have as many as 7 hatchings. Males are needed to inseminiate these females. A male can mate with several females but often times does not deliver enough sperm to fertilize all eggs. (millions at a time) so... yes we need healthy poulations of both to sustain a good fishery. There was a study based on crabs that had been in pots that indicated most sponge females that were in the trap died upon release however this study has many flaws and should not be used to make any substantial claims. The regulations that are in place are based on many factors and if we all just stick with the regs already in place we will hopefully maintain a good stock.

[Tom Powers]

Fisheyed,

Please attend the next VMRC Blue Crab Advisory Committee meeting so that you can point out the flaws in the study to the researcher. I would be most interested in hearing what they are and his response. Although I have not received an official notice it is supposed to be held on Oct. 15th (Or what ever Monday is close to that) at 7 PM.

I would also be interested in a reference for the 7 number for number of egg masses from one mating. Most studies that have been quoted in meetings state that a mated female crab can release eggs up to 3 times. Also the researchers have stated that the bulk of the egg mass release in VA is from first time sponge crabs. Of course a big part of that has to do with the harvest numbers as well as natural mortality and the distribution of the number of crabs that release 1, 2, 3 . . . times.

What I think is that the mature female crabs that are currently being caught in the lower bay (within like 5 to 10 miles of the mouth of the bay) have dropped their eggs for the season. The ones being caught further up the rivers and the bay have yet to release their eggs and are migrating out to deeper water in order to bury themselves in the mud for the winter. VIMS is doing a tagging study with mature female crabs the results should be most interesting.

Oh and the regulations VA as they stand are probably going to be adjusted before next season. I will post the info and options that are on the table once the information becomes available.

Tom

[mchar]

Not new news, but an old tiime crabber told me last fall - ' an honest wateman is a broke waterman'. No kidding. He tells of pulling sacs off sponges, throws 'em away, to get $15 a bushel for sooks.
I'm at a loss for words.
Mark

[dogbig]

Jerry,

You're right the maryland and virginia crab fishery (picking houses) is almost 100% reliant upon the female crab and, as a result, never in our days will any state dare to ban the catching female crabs. That being said, I guess my original thought is a moot point because I'm sure the rec catch of females is a drop in the bucket (no olympic swimming pool) when compared to the commercial catch. I guess it just feels good to throw them back!!

db

[fisheyed]

Tom this information comes from studies that I have seen on this board and on BCD forum. You are on both I believe, the seven number is not set in stone of course and is largely used to point out that the mature females are not worthless for repopulation purposes. What is the update on the closed areas for dark sponge crabs in va? The flaws I am refering to are low n numbers for the statistics, as well as the methodology of monitoring, small area of study, only limited water conditions. To me this study would help your fight to close more dark sponge areas and really might help the fishery down the road. (most comms keep the females anyway and this study might help close areas/ times most important to the stock) However I still do not believe that this single study is conclusive, I see it as a stepping stone to further undertanding of the impact between fisherman and nature. You obviously are more knowledgeable about these studies and if you have the time or inclination please bmail me with ways (links, studies) that I can research this more fully.

[MarkTakacs]

What is distressfull about the situation, is that many think that they have all the answers..............no way.

When money is involved....the resource always loses out.

Statistics will get misused.
Politicians are involved.
Scientist dont seem to get the facts straight and policies are not the best for the managed species.

Just because DNR says these are the seasons and limits......do think that this is best for the crabs.

Sure other things are involved.......weather, pollution, disease, etc................but overharvest is the one thing we can control.


Look at rockfish, geese, ducks, and our inability to over harvest deer.

IT IS EASY IF YOU TAKE THE MONEY OUT OF IT.

Mark

[Tom Powers]

The dark sponge law changes were set aside for a few months. Staff's stated that their intention is to come up with a set of regulatory changes for next year and put them in place before the Jan/Feb time frame. Dark sponge crabs and new closed areas are just part of the equation.

One (there are probably others) issue is to move the opening day up for crab pot season and to lower the bu limit. The issue is to avoid the beginning of the season glut. There was a petition last spring requesting something like this that was overcome by events (time) and was not formally submitted to the Commission.

Tom

[Scott McGuire]

Tom,

Out of curiosity... are you on the VMRC Blue Crab Advisory Committee???

[Tom Powers]

Yes. I have been for about 6 years. I am the only recreational member. There is also a rep from CBF. The hot rumor is that they are going to be changing out some of the members that no longer attend. For many, they have gotten out of the industry.

Tom

[b dog]

tom thanks for any and all help and time you must put in to that position. is that a vol . non paying appointment? rec,s lucky to have a rep,that also hears this forum. thanks b dog[smile]

[Riptide1947]

For my $.02 worth

When I see males carrying the egg sacs, then I will start keeping some females.

I disagree with the regs on keeping mature females, always have, and always will.

Can you possibly imagine if the regulator's in their infinite wisdom would just close the season for only one year on the harvesting of any females, in the entire Chesapeake bay, just how many crabs we would be able to catch the following ten years, just from this one effort ? ? ? ?

[steve waters]

I'll post these again and will continue to throw all cows (mature females) back so they can head South and release their eggs.

http://www.serc.si.edu/labs/fish_invert_ecology/bluecrab/migration.jsp

http://www.serc.si.edu/labs/fish_invert_ecology/bluecrab/reproduction.jsp