OT: Need Help with engine

[Crabslayer]

MY 115hp Johnson won't stay running at idle. I replaced the plugs checked and cleaned the carbs but will only run at higher rpms. Not sure if it is linkage problem. Anyone have any ideas?[sad]

[john pearce]

Maybee the Ethanol? Do you have a fuel / water seperator, might try changing the filter if you have one and if you don't I'd be sure to add one pretty soon, from what I've heard that Ethanol cleans your tank and hoses thus loosening up all the gunk, gotta catch it somehow.

[Bill Swartz Jr.]

CS,
Had the same problem. Check my post on the Boat Talk forum under '40hp Yamaha won't idle'.....!
Geo

[POLECAT]

Fuel pump weak???

[b dog]

try calling o m c parts/ lindenhurst outboard service 1-613-225-0077. they have helped me many times. ask to speak with tech. explain trouble and they will try to troubleshoot and dir.you to part needed. can order part from them overnite shp. they can tell you tests to run yourself if your up to it. hope this helps b.dog

[Water_boy]

Not meaning to scare you but it's also a sign of low compression... Is it running smokey?

[Bob H.]

Low speed jets/passage clogged. Spilt and clean the carbs.

[Burchbeer]

Bob H said what I was thinking.

Carb problems. Service same. Call me in a.m.

I take mine to the boat doctor.

I have no patience for busting my knucles anymore.

Good Luck.

I also prescribe CFIII.

DB

[POLECAT]

I agree with that diagnosis as well, however, Brian said he cleaned the carbs..............

If they were cleaned properly, etc...... I'd still give it a good dose of Sea Foam and also check the fuel pump diaphragm.


These motors aren't that complicated........... only when they don't work properly[grin]

[Crabslayer]

Thanks all. Will let you know with what I come up with. They're great when they're running but oh when they give you a fit. @#%&*.[sad][grin]

[mchar]

How about trying a portable 6 gal tank? I used a whole bottle of Lucas cleaner in mine, bypassing my main tank, and it cleaned out the carbs real good. Also use that Sea Foam Deep Creep - to do a de-carb, which will clean out built-up carbon from the pistons, valves, etc. Almost sure you've got the low speed jets clogged up, or a ton of carbon..
Mark

[Crabslayer]

Well, here is the diagonsis. Low compression in #s 1 & 3 cyl do to broken rings and torn up pistons. !@#$%^&*() and double !@#$%^&*()

[Stumpknocker]

Just had to replace my motor with the same problem. Water go into the engine, tore up the cylinders.

[Water_boy]

Sorry if I jinxed you, I lost one a few years ago to the same symptoms.

[fredjr]

what if your motor will start right up, idle well, but over 3000rpms it has engine surges, up and down in rpm while i'm trying to maintain a constant rpm. its not fuel pump because i squeezed primer ball during the surges and that doesnt help the situation. but when i press ignition primer (choke) the engine does not bog down and it starts to smoke heavily. any thoughts?

[POLECAT]

Broken rings, etc. are caused by carbon deposits in the grooves the rings are seated in. The rings are not allowed to free float in these grooves and eventually they break.

Regular decarboning removes these deposits and increases the integrity of the engine and thereby prolongs its life.

Obviously too late now for your motor Brian, but may be a learning experience for others. Sea Foam, Ring Free, etc. could have prevented this problem.

[Crabslayer]

POLECAT originally wrote:

Obviously too late now for your motor Brian, but may be a learning experience for others. Sea Foam, Ring Free, etc. could have prevented this problem.



Now you tell me. [grin]

Jer, too many days of slow speed going over the trots dipping all those jimmies is the real culprit.[grin]

[POLECAT]

Exactly Brian!!!
That's why every engine needs a decarboning every once and a while. The slower the motor is run and the longer it idles, the more carbon gets deposited in the piston grooves; the more it needs to have the carbon buildup removed.
This applies to every reciprocating internal combustion engine; 2 stroke and 4 stroke.

Here's a simple way to accomplish that task ( I have used this procedure for years.) :
This was copied from another forum for convenience.

1. 5/15/03 Tip for the Week
2. Do-It-Yourself Engine Tip; A Simple and Cost Effective Way to De-Carbon an Outboard By Capt. Bob Dunkelberger dunk75@comcast.net This works for Carbed, EFI, Ficht, HPDI, Opti-max and even 4-strokes... and should be administered after every 50-60 hours of use.
3. First you need a separate small fuel tank. One of those 3-gallon red Tempos works well or an empty gallon milk jug in a pinch, but it might be a bit messier.
4. I use Seafoam over the OEM (original equipment manufacturer) stuff like OMC Engine Tuner or Mercury Power Tune. Note: in the last few years they changed the formula and you have to let them sit up 12 hours. Who's got time for that? Seafoam does the job in 15 minutes and can be purchased from NAPA, Car Quest or other auto stores.
5. You'll need 3/4 gallon of gasoline and one 16oz can of Seafoam for each engine. Don't forget to add 3oz of oil if you are pre-mixing in a carbed engine. Use a 3 ft piece of fuel hose off the small tank. Connect this tank to your engine by pulling off the main tank fuel hose from the intake side of your water separating fuel filter and plug the hose off the small tank onto that fitting. Or you can separate the fuel line on the tank side primer ball, so you can still use your primer. If your engine has a fuel plug then you will also need a fuel plug on the smaller tank's hose.
6. Start the engine, let it warm up and start pulling the mix into the engine. You may have to increase the idle to keep it running once she gets loaded with the Seafoam. Run the engine 15 minutes at the dock or just cruising around under 2500 rpm's. Then shut it down and let it sit for another 15 minutes.
7. Restart the engine; the smoke you see is the carbon burning off. Do the whole thing again and let her sit again for 15 more minutes. If she smokes after the second time do it again.
8. I've never seen one still smoke after three doses. (I bought a Bronco two years ago that had 95,000 miles on it. When I used Seafoam on it I had the neighbors hanging out of their front doors looking for where the fire was after I started it the first time there so much smoke)
9. The gallon mix should be just enough to do this 3 times. You don't need a wide-open throttle and you don't need to change the plugs. The plugs are cleaned at the same time as the combustion chambers. My suggestion is that every 50-60hrs is the optimal time to change plugs in most engines.
10. I cleaned an antique Evinrude once that had a 1/4' of solid carbon on the exhaust chamber walls by running a 1/2 gal of the aforementioned mix through it. Seafoam, a great product, has been around since the 1930's and it's what they used when they were burning straight 4 stroke 40SAE oils in outboards.
11. For you guys with the 4 stroke outboards? Those engines work 10 times as hard as any auto engine ever will and they too will carbon up. Too many are under the assumption that it's totally the 2 stroke oil that causes the carbon, Wrong... it's also the additives they put in the fuels today. The carbon inhibitors in 2-stroke oil are there for this reason also. Remember when gasoline used to smell like gasoline, today it smells more like bad cologne.
12. For those guys that like to work the carbon treatment by spraying it down the carbs, Seafoam also comes in spray can called Deep Creep. It's the same stuff under pressure and notes on the can, 'Oxygen Sensor Safe'. After that, if your engine manufacturer recommends a daily additive treatment then do so. The tank and hose are a one-time purchase and the Seafoam is only costs $5-6.00 per can.

[rj]

Carbon buildup removal is important , but in Brians case as was several others that I have seen recently (and many more that I have seen in the past)the culprit was water ingestion,,Brians motor is a 1978,,,that's 28 yrs old, it has seen very little use and from the condition of the internal parts and bores it had few hours. and very little carbon buildup. most of its life was spent stored on a trailer in someone's yard

one of the most often overlooked things with outboard motors is Gasket integrity,especially in older ,10 yrs+, motors,specificaly the gaskets that seperate the water jacket from the combustion chamber and the exhaust chamber, (head gaskets,exhaust gaskets,powerhead base gaskets) .
in outboards, the water jackets and the combustion chambers and the exhaust housing are seperated by , in many cases less than 1/8' of gasket material, outboards typically get used for several months in the summer and then are put away for a long winter, during this time the composition gaskets deteriorate and dry out,(especially after 28 yrs in this case) no it didn't set for 28 yrs but 28 yrs of this cycle caused the gaskets to dry out and fail, thus allowing cooling water to be drawn into the cylinders, when cooling wqater is drawm into cylinders in sufficient quantity, it can cause all sorts of troubles, cylinder wall scuffing, excessive wear, preignition (which will lead to piston deterioration and broken rings),misfiring,or lower rpm's or other seemingly intermittent problems especially at high speed,many times it is mis diagnosed and allowed to continue while other things are checked and needlesly replaced,

this problem is most often found in motors that have reached 10-12 yrs old and is quite prevalent
in Brians case ,Both head gaskets and the exhaust cover gaskets had failed and water was getting into the starboard combustion chambers, it had been going on for quite some time until the pistons deteriorated and the rings broke, this wasn't something that had happened overnite. He had no idea this was going on ,,preignition ,if present, cannot usually be heard by someone in an outboard powered boat,and any other symptoms were routinly mis diagnosed. not uncommon , as most people do not routinle remove their cylinder heads to look inside their motors,and they are not specifically looking for water signs when they pull their sparkplugs,

For those with aging motors, this is something to keep in mind when your motors start acting up,
from personal experience I have seen and have had a lot more failures in older motors due to water ingestion , than from carbon buildup and ring jacking.especially since the introduction of the TCW-3 oils,

hope this helps