recent accidents

[BIG EYE]

The Vice President thing is pretty shocking. I can't understand how he could have been so careless as to fire in the direction of a hunter, period.

But.... the one that really has me shaking my head is the one where the 7 year old boy was killed in VA. The paper said the guy was loading his gun at the back of his SUV. Why would you load before ready in the blind? My mind will not allow me to comprehend such a story. No doubt both of these deals were accidents, and accidents do happen, but man, it boils down to a lack of respect for the power of guns.[sad]

[pbramble]

VP commited the cardinal sin of quail hunting. You never shoot at bird that goes behind you, never.

[mdram]

im not defending what the vp did, but after listening to the news, other people einvolved said no one knew the guy was there. he fell behind and was playin catchup.

[pbramble]

That's why you never shoot at quail that cruise behind you. you maintain a line, and shoot in front of you at all times.

[done workin]

Rule #1, when hunting in a party, know where your hunters are.

As for the Va incident, Marylands' rule is that it is illegal to have a weapon loaded at a vehicle. Let's see, what else, safety not on, pointing the gun in a unsafe direction, the list goes on and on. Stupid careless mistake that he will have to live with forever.

My grandfather once told that "Accidents don't just happen, they are caused."

[moronehead]

Accidents happen. Hindsight is 20-20, and even more so if you have never hunted wild upland birds before.

[BIG EYE]

Yea, I'm a large supporter of DC, I agree with his politics and all that, but this bothers me. People want to say it was an accident, and that it could happen to anyone, well, I don't really buy that. I'm not saying he should tank over it, but if he is the guy I think he is, he is shattered.

The guy in Virginia might need to do time, that one is off the scale.

[BIG EYE]

Oh lord...the guy Cheney shot just had a heart attack. Hope he pulls through, last report says he has shot in his heart...[angel]

[rhahn427]

First ........ what idiot would shoot at anything behind him ...... to get a shot at it you would have to point the gun at or over the heads of your fellow hunters ........ this is NOT in your shooting lane.

Second it is YOUR responsibility to know where all of the other hunters are ....... you have the gun and you are responsible for your own actions therefore it is your responsibility to know where everyone is at all times.

Third ......... now we know why the information was not made public for 24 hours. To me there are some things that REALLY do not make sense. How do you get quail shot in the heart at 30 yds. The quail shot I've used was 8 or 9 shot and at 30 yards there is not much left unless you are using a heavy load even then not much power. How does this shot get into the heart ..... through the hunting vest/jacket, shirt, tee shirt, rib cage and into the heart unless it was at close range and aimed at the chest. I've never heard of shot traveling through the veins/arteries to the heart. Have you?

THings just don't add up ......... the only ones at the ranch are secret service and Republican inner circle and info is not released for 24 hours or more .......... anything could have transpired in that time especially with someone that well connected and ............ well I'll leave it there.

[done workin]

Moronehead,

I hope I am misunderstanding the voice behind your statement. If not,

Hindsight may be 20-20 but there is still no excuse to ever point a gun in a direction where you cannot positively identify the backstop out to a reasonable distance, let alone pull the trigger. The fact of upland bird hunting or not!!!!

I have hunted upland birds and have been showered with pellets from other hunters, but to not know where a hunter is in your own party within 30-40 yards and to pull the trigger is totally unexcusable and sets a bad example for responsibility. The best thing he could do, if he hasn't already done it, is to come out and say "I was wrong and excercised poor judgement".

That's comparable to shooting someone with a bow (30-40 yards) and saying I thought it was a deer because it was early in the morning or late in the evening and the person looked like one.

[moronehead]

done workin-
I agree with you 100%. Ive hunted birds, and Im sure Im not alone here, in cover so thick you cant see the guy in orange 10 yrds away (BTW, that part of TX isnt like that for the most part). We constantly mark each other vocally to stay in a line. That ol timer was outta line, the shooter prob didnt know it and the accident happened in a split second. Many factors contributed to the mishap. Now the press is gonna play it out like its a personal issue. Its not. That situation prob plays itself out 100s of times a season. Its not the same as shooting deer or turkey. Ive been hunting 35 yrs and yes Ive taken a couple shots that I should not have. Been peppered many times, though not at 30 yrds.

[herefishyfishy]

Fellas,
I don't post here much, but after hearing the story, the bottom line is that since it happened to such a well known person, that the liberal media is going to have a field day with it. It will just be one more ace in the hole for them for their arguments regarding gun control!!!! Certainly should have never happened. Probably not one person's fault in particular, but a breakdown throughout!

[HOOK1]

Yeah, the media will distort this incident in every way. You won't be able to beleive anything unless Cheney can fess up, but how many of us beleive our politicians anyway?

[done workin]

Morone
True, my pellet shower was at 100 or more and looking back on one incident with hindsight involving only myself, I am lucky to have a foot. STUPID MISTAKE, but had I not been very lucky that day (Luckily I blew a hole in the ground and not my foot), I mighta' bled to death on that mountain. What was I doing, grouse hunting. DAMN BIRDS.

I hope the media doesn't spin this into anything but what it is. A preventable accident.

Like you said, this probably happens 100's of times a year with no incident. But how many people are living their lives knowing how lucky they are and how they never should have been in that situation had the proper rules been followed. I'm one of them.

[HOOK1]

Done workin is right! It could happen to any one of us anytime.

[Big DV]

herefishyfishy originally wrote:
Fellas,
I don't post here much, but after hearing the story, the bottom line is that since it happened to such a well known person, that the liberal media is going to have a field day with it. It will just be one more ace in the hole for them for their arguments regarding gun control!!!! Certainly should have never happened. Probably not one person's fault in particular, but a breakdown throughout!

Well put. It was an unfortunate accident. The Liberal media will take this story and spin it in everyway possible to make the DC and GW look bad. Instead of worrying about the poor man that was shot the media will use him to help there cause. Its all very sad.

[BIG EYE]

DV, you really believe that? what about the guy in VA, what should they do with him?

[kayakfishgirl]

Has anyone got a comment about " I didn't have the correct license" and the VP has since mailed his $70.00 payment on Monday.

Dear Game Warden finding me in the woods,

I am sorry and will now pay the money/dues owed by me as a resident and VP to uphold the laws that I help with. Please TAKE BACK THE TICKET now because I went ahead and mailed my payment in...because I got caught and caused an accident!
or
Dear state trooper,
I know I was not to drink or open this one beer I got at the Minit Mart in the country knowing I am only 5 miles away from my home. I am truely sorry and will not do this... AGAIN.
or
Damn, I got caught...did I buy the license...call someone quick to pay up.

Not to excuse the health and well being of an individual or emphasize on a smaller note...but that is the one statement that stuck when I heard the press release. It was quickly said and it was said at the end of the statement of the press release.

'Andrea

[cuhollow]

It sounds like the guy in VA was grossly irresponsible. There isn’t a reasonable explanation for why he would be loading his gun in the vehicle or why at any time the barrel was pointed at another passenger in the car. That being said, he also accidentally shot his friends kid and is so upset about it that he had to be treated for shock. I guess they are not pursuing criminal charges because the father is a friend and the guy is already so upset. I would say if the father doesn’t want to pursue charges then you don’t pursue charges.

As far as DC goes - First off quail hunting for you guys must be different than my experiences with it. Everytime I have found quail they have been so think in cover it is almost impossible to get through and you certainly are not walking in a straight line. You hunt with a couple people, crawl through the briars to wherever you last heard the dog, find him on point, get around him and move in. From that point saying never shoot at a bird that goes behind you makes no sense. The bird can and will fly any direction and you just have to know where everyone is and shoot. In DC’s situation it sounds several hunters were walking in a line and finding pen raised birds in waist high grass. It sounds like this bird flushed wild and they didn’t get a point and DC swung on it. It is hard to keep track of several people when hunting. So in summary - yes DC was wrong, but it sounds like the type thing that could have happened to anyone. (Anyone could swing on a quail into an area they know recently was a clear shooting lane and fire only to find someone had just walked up there) Lifelong hunters will at some point another make a bad shot and at some point or another their gun will go off accidentally. You can only hope that your bad shot won’t result in something like what happened with DC and never point your gun at anything you wouldn’t be willing to shoot to prevent the VA accident. As far as getting shot with 8s or 9s at 30 yards … That is well within the kill range of a shotgun - why wouldn’t shot get into the blood stream and travel to the heart - especially when there are 200 shots that could. I bet a shotgun will break the skin close to 100 yards, but I haven’t ever tested this theory on myself. BTW - DC was using high powered 7.5s, the best quail load.

[BIG EYE]

chuo, you cannot go quail hunting with me. your experience as you describe it is verry different than the hunts i've been on. here is the thing, there is no accountability in all of this. sure, cheney feels bad as he darn well should, in fact i bet harry is seriously pissed. at the verry least the vp should not be allowed to obtain a hunting licence without completing some sort of training deal. if i was king, he would never hunt my forest again.

on the other accident, i do not believe it should be up to the father as to weather or not the state prosicutes. there should be law that protects the rest of society from idiots like that. perhaps i believe to much in prevention, do you not think that both of these were preventable?

[pbramble]

Cuhollow,
I agree with Big Eye, I've hunted quail in fields, woods, etc. You shoot in one direction, its a basic rule in quail hunting, just like shooting at nothing below 45 degrees in the air is a basic rule when pheasant hunting using drivers and blockers. If you flush a covery correctly, they will fly away from you and in front or off to your side (right or left). And you never shoot behind you, for the very reason that Cheney's buddy is in the hospital today.

Your right accidents happen, but there are rules of engagement so to say.

[mikie]

To Kayakfishgirl: The story I read said that D.C. had the correct $125 non-resident hunting license. There was a recently enacted (within the last 4 months) Upland Game Stamp which cost $7.00 that he did not possess. Evidently, according to the Game Dept. Officers, virtually no one knew of, or had purchased the new stamp. Hence, they were only issuing warnings instead of tickets for not having this stamp.

[HPIII]

Folks, in reference to the incident in Stafford County I have a few questions. Although the news reports are not complete about how the incident occurred I wonder if maybe, just maybe this child got into the vehicle without the owner knowning about it? Also it does not say if there was a mechanical malfuntion of the gun. It is the responsibility of law enforcement to present his findings to the Commonwealth's Attorney who then decides if sufficent evidence will allow a prosecution. Evidently the Stafford Commonwealth's Attorney did not think so. My next question is has anyone been involved with a hunting accident? As my profession is Paramedic I have been involved with them and I was hunting the day a young man in my club was accidently shot and subsequently died. ALL OF THEM ACCIDENTS ARE TRAGIC, but instead of name calling, say three prayers tonight. One that you have not been injured while in the woods or on the water. Two a prayer for the victim's and their family. Third a prayer for the shooter involved.

[cuhollow]

have you guys ever even hunted wild quail? They are always in the thickest stuff around - you always try and push them into the open - they always fly back into the thicket - saying you can only shoot one direction while quail hunting is a joke- three hunters around a dog on point and the ONLY safe direction to shoot is behind you - otherwise the hunters are shooting at each other


shooting pens raised birds while walking in a line in a field is a different story

[mikie]

I think the safety thing is more about common sense and knowing where everyone is, before you shoot. We shoot quail behind us all of the time - if the wind is blowing in your face when you walk in and flush the birds, they're going to go up a couple of feet, catch the wind and zip right by you. Everybody keeps their guns pointed up and pivots with the birds and waits until they are going away and are clear of the hunting party before they fire. I'm sure this guy with Cheney's party was coming back to the group unannounced, as has been stated, and Cheney couldn't stop his shot. Tragic event that he will always have to live with - but luckily not deadly. It's why they're called accidents. Do I think it's National News for a week? Not hardly!!

[pbramble]

I've shot many wild quail, but I guess in different terrain. I've just been taught not to pivot around and shoot behind you, period. It is possible to be very successful on wild quail while keeping the birds in front of you. You seem to know which way they are going to flush (to the thickest part of the thicket). If that's the case, then you obviously position yourself so that you shoot where they are going to go, ie, you and your fellow hunters position yourself so that the birds flush IN FRONT of you. If you approach a covey knowing they are going to flush and zoom behind you, and your are going to have to turn 180 degrees around to shoot, then you are not approaching that covey right as far as I'm concered, and I've never heard of surrounding a dog the way you describe.

I have a feeling we are talking about the same thing, but perhaps my saying you never shoot behind you is giving you fits. In saying "behind you", I mean in terms of how you approach the point. If the dog is birdy, we assess where the birds are, and we adjust our line so that when we approach a dog on point, we flush the birds so that we have clear shooting in front of us, and away from each other.

BUT, if a bird flushes and does a 180 and is going to get behind us before a safe shot can be made on him, then we let him go. To each his own, this is how I was taught to quail hunt, perhaps it's not the best way, but it works for us.

[BIG EYE]

I've never hunted with more than three guns and a dog. The line is not a constant, it moves in relation to the refuge, but you are correct, have not hunted a many wild ones.

[mikie]

I guess how one has been taught to flush birds ( we always come from behind the dog and continue in the direction they are pointing until the birds flush) is actually irrelevant. The subject of primary importance is safe gun handling and knowing where everyone (including the dog) is, and not taking any "iffy" shots. I know I duck quite often when a bird comes close to me, just to be careful. You don't always know everyone you're with and how they have been taught.

[RYASON]

Good post. But Im sure everyone has come across the guy loading his gun at the truck or in the dark. You just have to be bold and speak up. A family losing a son at the hands of a Dad with no common sence will haunt them forever. No jail time is going to rid him of that.

[Big DV]

BIG EYE originally wrote:
DV, you really believe that? what about the guy in VA, what should they do with him?

Big Eye, yes I do beleive that. My comments are about Dick Chaney and not the Virginia incident. It is a sad incident for Chaney and Whittington. I understand the facts about what happened. It bothers me when media puts bias into a story and distorts to the public the "facts". Its hard to distinguish whats true and whats false when I listen to the news. And that bothers me.