Goose massacre

[Fat Jimmy]

We waited all season for the geese to hit the one little creek that we hunt in Frederick and my brother called the other night and said it was time. Killed 28 with 8 guns, but we probably shoulda done better. Had too many circling a couple of times and it's hard to hide 8 guys in a little creek. Got 2 banded birds, one was double banded with a 50 dollar reward band. Gonna try 'em again in the morning, but it's probably not going to be easy to talk 'em into getting smashed in the face again. [wink]

[kepone cats]

Our season ended on 1/28 with a 2 bird limit so you guys can slaughter them? I guess some states need to be reserved in the harvest...[shy]

[Fat Jimmy]

Yep, I guess we gotta shoot geese since we can't spend our winter dredging for female crabs.

[nchaput]

I am a little confused. In md there is an 8 bird limit for canadas? I have never heard of that? Is there a reason for that? J/C I have always experienced the two bird limit. In CT I didn't get the chance to goose hunt until I was 15 or 16 because of the season closure for a couple of years. I know the geese have recovered but have they recovered enough to justify an 8 bird limit?

[Fat Jimmy]

MD is divided into resident (western part of state) and the migrating birds on the eastern shore. We did have an 8 bird limit early in the season, but it's at 5 birds now until the end of the season on Wednesday. I can promise you there is no shortage of resident birds out this way and it seems like there's more every year. We went back yesterday and only got 3. The big flocks were still in the area and they gave us a look, but I don't think anything could have convinced them to come in there again yesterday. FJ

[drewsmith]

This is the late resident season in Maryland. It is supposed to be for non-migratory birds. Perfectly legal on the western shore. DNR ends up changing the boundries for this every year. It is obvious to me that AP birds are being taken during this late "resident" season.

It is especially clear that this must be changed when guys post up about bands taken. Hopefully they will be reported and the late resident season changed.

[onthefly]

I do agree that the resident population increases during the last few weeks. However keep in mind that although AP geese are mixed in the majority of the bands taken here are from neighboring states to determine the range of resident geese. West Virginia seems to make the bulk of bands taken.

[ketch69]

Try baiting them with corn like you fellas do the deer. They will prolly come in better.

[Fat Jimmy]

The one band that my brother ended up with said Laurel, MD. I'm not a rocket scientist, but i'll just take a wild guess and say that one was probably a resident.

[drewsmith]

Yikes, your wild guess would be wrong, but on the bright side, you're no rocket scientist. All bands that were a certain age say Laurel, Maryland. Many now have Washington DC. Doesn't mean they were all banded in these two cities. That's just where you you write after a bird is harvested. Some have toll free numbers. Please give the band to someone that will correctly report the harvest data. This is used to help all the USF&WS plan seasons across many states and will hopefully guide the state of Maryand to properly set the AP and RP boundries.

[Durado]

......there are a few AP's here and there mixed into resident flocks....but Drew, you know as well as I that these birds over here are infact resident birds. Please post this over the refuge. I'd be very interested to see how others more directly involved in this feel about it. For years, the Eastern shore land owners and outfitters have been sticking it to everyone with they're high priced lands and leases, now the Resident goose population has exploded opening a vast portion of the western shore of Maryland to a goose hunting gold mine. The Eastern shore can not stand it because they don't have a hand it in and they have to sit back and watch those fortunate enough to have places to hunt over here take 5-8 birds to they're 2, and hunt much longer.....and believe me, they're doing whayever they can to stop it. There have been reports and eyewitness accounts of people taking banded birds on the Eastern Shore and calling them in as shot on the Western Shore. Just wrong. Anyway, this topic needs to be over at the Refuge where people more versed and knowledgable on this subject than any of us, can chime in.

[smile][smile][wink]

.....nice job Fat Jimmy!!![smile]

[Nancy S Lewis]

Fat Jimmy originally wrote:
Yep, I guess we gotta shoot geese since we can't spend our winter dredging for female crabs.


GOOD ONE!

[Fat Jimmy]

Drew- don't worry the band was "correctly" called in by my brother before the goose was even cold. I kind of thought about it after I wrote about the band saying Laurel, Md and figured that I was wrong. However, the last banded goose we got off this farm was banded 4 years prior a couple of miles from where it was shot, so i'm still pretty confident this bird was a local. I had no idea what a can of worms I was opening by simply posting a hunting report, but it will be my last. We've been playing around with waterfowling for the last 5 or 6 years now and this was the best hunt i've been on and I was just trying to share my excitement. Durado- thanks for the congrats.

[drewsmith]

I have no problem with the early resident season. Clearly, a September early season is all about the residents. AP geese don't start showing up until late October.

I do not like the late resident season on the western shore because there are AP birds on the other side of the bay this time of the year. Maybe it is due to the pressure on the eastern shore that pushes the birds across the bay.

If they were truly residents why is the season so poor in September and everyone "massacres" them after the AP season. If they were truly RP's wouldn't the September season be hot also?

Nothing personal, I just see a big problem heading down the road.

There are plenty of guides and outfitters taking advantage of the late resident season and the very high limits on the western shore, just like the eastern shore.

I suspect that when we get a lower daily bag in a few years, this will be one of the causes. The scientific data is always years too late. The goose population crash and the closed season was not all that long ago. This was due to the bird counts being done down here, rather than the nesting grounds. There was never a sudden crash, but years of a limit that was set too high and a reliance on incorrect migratory goose population estimates. Same folks that were responsible for incorrectly counting migratory geese then are the same that set the boundries and limits for RP birds.

There are very few examples of RP geese with ADVISE (federal) bands done down here in the spring or summer time. I have asked many times and still try to get that information. Additionally, AP geese can become residents, ie banded in Quebec a few years ago and stay. However, based on the banding numbers, it highly unlikely that a banded bird shot in this area is a resident.

I don't want to open this can on the fuge and start an east vs west thing. Every year at this time there's photos of 50+ geese and a few bands from "resident" hunts. Nobody every posts up the band data later.

[masterbaiter]

jimmy, dont worry about the jealous ones, be happy you are one of the lucky ones who can be doing the late season thing. the geese are back and will be for a long time to come but you're right about the crabs, but thats another issue. keep on postin' !!!!

[GEORGE ZAHRADKA]

theres no doubt that there are ap geese on the western shore ,just like there are rp geese on the eastern shore .in the past 8 years over here on the western shore i probably have 50 or 60 bands all rp geese except 3 or4 .

congradulations on the hunt only a few more days left.

remember the shore guys did it to there selfs ,they put the price tag on the gooses head.it was all about the $$$$$$$$$$ so let them sweat it out now

[Durado]

If they were truly residents why is the season so poor in September and everyone "massacres" them after the AP season. If they were truly RP's wouldn't the September season be hot also?


.....crops are up and fields are not available as well, food is abundant and the geese do not have to fly and they do not. They loaf because they can....but we still crush over here in September.....just a different strategy.....I find it hard to believe "you" acutally didn't know that. lol

There are outfitters and guide services over here, and they all are great people.....as are many one the shore.

The reason I'd like to see this post over at the fuge., not to make it an East vs. West issue, but the actual person, Larry Hindman, doing the banding and data research can read an answer your questions regarding it.

I hunt both sides of the bay very often, and one things for sure......I ain't never shot a 15 pd goose in Chestertown.....and I've never shot an 8 pounder in Tawneytown. It happens, Yes, but not often.
This year, the MDDNR and the USFWS are actually thinking of uping the bag limit and opening the season as early as August1, allowing unplugged guns, e-callers and extending the shooting time to 1/2 hour after sunset.

There must be a problem with the RP goose populations if they are willing to go those distances. In Maryland alone, the population is more than twice the size the State would like to see, and the states to the north of us, where our resident birds come from, are even worse.

I feel your pain and I wish you all the luck in trying to stop it. [smile]

[Durado]

....[smile]

[drewsmith]

Yes, I paidxxxxxxxxxxxto lease a farm. But, it is actually 14 farms containing 2,800 acres. It's almost 4 miles wide. It also has a 3,000 square foot house and 6,000 square feet of storage. The first year I had it someone offered to lease it for 25% more than I paid for it the first year, so it can't be that much off the market price.

It's wedged between a state and federal wildlife refuge and is one of the premier properties in DELAWARE. For two months this year, the water in the middle of this group of farms held the largest concentration of snow geese on the east coast. We also have a large RP population. On the opener 8 guys shot 56 geese in less than an hour in a dirt field.

I lease a bunch more on the eastern shore that makes xxxxx look small considering a price per acre. My club is not run for profit. We have open finances and it took off because there are regular guys being priced out of waterfowl hunting. Our club makes it possible to hunt the best farms and spread the cost among all the members. This type of club, done right, was badly needed in this area. However, I am not sure what this has to do with the Late RP season.

The farms are loaded right now. Hundreds of geese in every field and pond. Just because they are there now, doesn't mean they are staying the summer.

I have spoken to DNR and looked at the data. Everytime, they ceed the point "yes there are some AP birds killed in the late RP season. I just dislike the late RP season. Nothing against the early season, in September when you can be more certain that there are no AP birds around.

It would a more sound argument if DNR would say that the AP birds killed in the late season were necessary to reduce the RP population. Or make the RP season later, or further restrict the area.

Why is the late RP season 5 rather than the normal 8 birds in the early season if such a huge problem exists?

[drewsmith]

I edited my last message since the one above that was edited asked some specific questions. Since I do not know who this person is, I would like to leave the response, and edit the $$$$.

Appreciate the responses and sorry to get the original thread off tract. Hopefully, I can get it back on track by saying good hunt, congrads on a fun day out and keep the powder dry.

[Durado]

Drew, your the one that took it off track. [smile]

.....saying that a few AP birds in RP thousands is bad therefore we should shut it down is wrong, you release ducks, it's like saying that no wild birds are harvested with your released birds. You know there are, but the numbers a few and far between, which is why the USFWS and Maryland allow RSA's....same thing with the geese.
I deleted my post above because I thought it was inappropriate to talk about money, and I didn't want to disrespect you or your club.
The RP season is here because it is needed, not because you or anyone else does or does not like it. Restrictions, maybe....if needed. Less birds during the late RP season....well I'm guessing because you can't crab and fish during February which means more people will be out hunting, and plenty of places to hunt em from. The difference between the September season and the late season is that in February...the birds are slaves to they're stomach and that makes em easier to hunt, and more vunerable to hunters........which is why I believe the limit is a bit less, but 5 is still very nice![smile]

.....what I meant by the deleted post was that you all are bidding yourself out of business and the shore's clients are staying westside. [smile]

[MarkTakacs]

The AP geese are our native species, so to speak and breed in the Ungava (sp.) peninsula area that often proves to be a harsh nesting environment, thus the population does not rebound from hunting pressure some years.

The majority of RP geese are migratory and part of a different larger subspecies that does not interact fully with the ways of the smaller AP geese. Obviously some of these geese take up residence in our parks, golf courses, etc. but if they were all truely residents then the farms around my Harford Co. home would be in big trouble, but as spring comes Loch Raven reservoir clears out and so do the fields with only a few breeding pairs staying around.

Both groups can be found to have Federal bands, remember this is how the USFWS learns.....from our band returns......we are part of the process.

You are not truely a hunter unless you understand the land and the game you pursue....just a shooter.

8 guns............at one time?

Mark

[rj]

Jamie
Thanks for the report,,sounds like you all had a good day after waiting all season for the birds to show.

thanks for posting ,,some seem to be critical of your sucess,,just ignore them and keep on posting,

To the naysayers-your concerns may be valid but to criticize someone who hunts within the season dates and bag limits and then is good enough to share his experiences here, is uncalled for-----take your concerns to the regulators that set the season dates and bag limits

both Virginia and Maryland have a 5 bird western zone, late season, bag limit

Ps: If you ever need annother gun--let me know[smile]

Dem Dere Birds Wud Look Purdy Good Onda Grill at Da Snoodfest[grin][grin]

[Fat Jimmy]

Unfreakingbelievable. Call me whatever you want, I don't really care. But, i've got a 2005-2006 hunting guide that says what we did was legal, my federal and state stamps, the landowner's written permission, used steel shot, didn't shoot before it was legal and if you don't like it, call somebody that cares. I didn't grow up waterfowling and learn new things all the time, but i'll never make the mistake of asking any of you experts here for advice or help.

Yep, 8 guns at the same time and a couple of times it would have been nice to have had more. Have a nice day, i'm done.

Dem Dere Birds Wud Look Purdy Good Onda Grill at Da Snoodfest

Rj- it's funny you say that cause I put a big pack in the freezer yesterday that are doing just that!! bacon wrapped chunks with a slice of jalapeno in 'em!!

Thanks rj, you echoed my sentiments to a T!! I'm headed back to the crabbing board where things are a little more civil and much less critical!![wink] FJ

[pbramble]

Good shooting Fatjimmy, and don't stop posting good hunts on here. Some guys just get a little peeved they aren't doing it. They forget hunting is supposed to be fun, whether you get your limit or not.

[moronehead]

FYI- Lotta snows comin down outta of PA through Cecil yesterday(heading to C-town??). For those of you that can...tear 'em up.

[barrelburner]

Way to go FatJimmy, keep up the good and ethical, legal hunting, I got my five Sat Feb 11 on the upper potomac due to putting my time in scouting and alittle luck. Keep the posts coming. Good luck to all. I have had good success all year, was by myself and could have used some more guns for our fat Rp's.[smile][grin]

[fish1]

Drew, when did it matter to you or any other Non-Marylander what western marylanders did, Dnr controls the waterfowl and if I had a spot to hunt I would be hunting TOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill

[Durado]

I thought this was kinda funny so I posted it...Straight off your website Drew..[grin]

There were several outstanding resident goose hunts including the opener, in which 56 canada geese were taken in less than an hour.


.......it is definelty a legitamate arguement, and I don't want to make it seem like I or anyone is dumbing down anyone else's opinion on a subject... It's great that we have boards like this that we can discuss concerns. Like Fish1 said, the MD DNR is in charge of this and so is the USFWS, who both have guys and gals working 365 days a year, 24 hours a day researching every in and out of the RP and AP goose populations.....who are we to tell them they are wrong. When a "Hot Spot" was noticed, action was taken and the upper portions of Baltimore and Carroll counties were eliminated from the RP zones....there was some bad feelings, but everyone came together and excepted it. This will continue, and band data will be closely monitored. This is not a conspiracy, Western Shore keepin the Eastern shoremen down. This is scientific, and until research proves it wrong....except it and be happy for those fortunate hunters. :)

[drewsmith]

Not really a got-you moment since I posted up about this hunt on post number 20 in this same thread. You didn't really have to go to my site to find it. [wink] although I appreciate the traffic. If your not going to even read my posts before responding, then I give up.

Nothing against early RP hunts, now for the fourth time. It is simply my opinion that too many AP geese are taken in the late RP season in western Maryland.

No jealously here, if I wanted a farm on the western shore, I would have one by now.
[angel][smile]

[Bunkerboz]

Fat Jimmy,
Glad to see you post about your hunt..it is a shame that everyone comes out of the woodwork to ***** and complain about an honest guy shooting his limit and sharing that in a post.
Its also a shame to hear ya say you wont do it again.
I personally get tired of it too.

Boz

[chcltlabz]

The total lack of knowledge expressed here amazes me. The worst part is some people will read this and accept it as the truth.

I seem to remember a certain "hunting club" that was offering big money for farms on the western shore. Anybody know who that was?

You won't post this up on the Refuge because you know your full of it.

The fact is, the geese are not on the western shore in huge numbers in September because they aren't here yet. YES, THEY DO MIGRATE. The big question is, from where? You see, there's this big spread of land in between Arctic Canada and Maryland. That's where they come from. That means that they are not Atlantic Population geese, and aren't even North Atlantic Population birds. THEY'RE RESIDENTS. A goose from New York or even Ontario is still a resident goose.

You should take the time to read the Environmental Impact Study published on Resident Geese. It would shed some light on the issue, instead of forming opinions based solely on jelousy.

[222swanc]

drewsmith originally wrote:
Yikes, your wild guess would be wrong, but on the bright side, you're no rocket scientist. All bands that were a certain age say Laurel, Maryland. Many now have Washington DC. Doesn't mean they were all banded in these two cities. That's just where you you write after a bird is harvested. Some have toll free numbers. Please give the band to someone that will correctly report the harvest data. This is used to help all the USF&WS plan seasons across many states and will hopefully guide the state of Maryand to properly set the AP and RP boundries.
What a jerk....

[Dana]

Found this posted on the MD DNR site In the summer of 2005, about 300 wood ducks, 400 black ducks and 800 resident Canada geese were banded within Maryland . These are banded with FEDERAL bands. Like c-labs pointed out the RP geese breed from MD, NY, PA, etc and migrate down as they are frozen out, just like the AP birds which breed on the UNGAVA.
Keep in mind that MD took out a portion of the RP zone when band returns indicated more than a few incidental APs were being killed so they are responsive to the problem.

Fat Jimmy congrats on the legal hunt.

[GEORGE ZAHRADKA]

i hunt the western rp zone i'm sure there are a small % of ap geese shot.a lot of our farms last year were rp zones this year there ap.and yes i think 5 geese are to many i would like to see it go back to 3.mds.population of rp geese are not like they were when this season 1st. was introduced.alot of the band s that i've shot comes from n.york,vermont,rhode is.,conn. n.ham.,penn.,ohio,vir.,mich., wis.,s.c, out of 50 or 60 bands only 3-4 came from the ap population.thats not to bad considering people are saying we're shooting ap birds ......unless there that much smarter then the rp geese.ha ha.

[cuhollow]

50 or 60 bands? How many geese are you shooting?

[GEORGE ZAHRADKA]

i'm a produce farmer so i got all winter off.the bands includes trips to canada and around the states.but the majoritly came from western Md.over 8 years or so...

[Fat Jimmy]

I'm still no rocket scientist, but for once I was right. I know it's been a while and no one probably cares, but my brother finally got the results the other day from the band he called in. guess what? That bird was banded in Fort Meade, Md. [wink]

[Thunnus Amongus]

Nice Work Fat Jimmy-
Thanks for sharing the info. Good Job!
Tom

[pbramble]

Fat Jimmy,
Sucks you got so much flak about your hunt, nice to know the goose truly is a resident.

For all you out of staters and people who gave FJ a hard time, please read the following items from the MDDNR website concerning the proposed regulations for the 2006-2007 RP goose season. This info came from:

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/wildlife/comments/2006seasonprop.html

NEW AUGUST GOOSE SEASON: During August 1-31 Canada goose hunting is permitted only on private lands and designated DNR-owned and managed lands and waters. Federal regulations require that hunters participating in the August portion of the Early Resident Canada Goose Season provide their names and addresses for use in harvest surveys. Hunters participating in the August season will be required to access the DNR Internet or call a toll free number to register. At the end of the Internet or telephone registration, a confirmation number will be issued authorizing the hunter to participate in the August season. This confirmation number must be in the hunter’s possession while hunting Canada geese during August.

NEW HUNTING METHODS: During the Early (August and September) Resident Canada goose season hunters may use unplugged shotguns (e.g., capable of holding more than 3 shot shells) while hunting Canada geese. Shooting hours during the early Resident Canada Goose Season are one half hour before sunrise to one half hour after sunset.

KEY POINTS:

The Departments goal is to manage Resident Canada geese in Maryland to achieve an optimal balance between the positive values and conflicts associated with these birds. Specific management objectives to achieve this goal are:

(a) reduce the Resident Canada Goose Population in Maryland to 30,000 (spring estimate); and
(b) permit a wide variety of effective and efficient options for relief of damage and conflicts attributed to this overabundant goose population.

The 2005 spring breeding population was 86,500, or more than twice the desired target population objective (e.g., 30,000).

Resident Canada geese continue to cause significant problems such as damage to property, agriculture, or natural resources, and conflicts with public health and safety.

The daily bag limit is being increased from 8 to 15 to provide an additional option for controlling problem geese on specific sites that may only be able to use hunting on a very limited basis (e.g., 1-2 days).

The proposed regulations provide greater opportunity for goose hunters to harvest Resident Canada geese. These regulations also will allow landowners to resolve problems more effectively and assist with reducing the population.

Limiting the hunting of Canada geese in August to only private lands and DNR managed lands will minimize conflicts between goose hunting and other recreational uses of public waters.

[rapprunner]

kepone cats originally wrote:
Our season ended on 1/28 with a 2 bird limit so you guys can slaughter them? I guess some states need to be reserved in the harvest...[shy]

I hope they kill all the stupid things! From what I see there is no shortage of Canada geese.

[Big DV]

Fat Jimmy originally wrote:
I'm still no rocket scientist, but for once I was right. I know it's been a while and no one probably cares, but my brother finally got the results the other day from the band he called in. guess what? That bird was banded in Fort Meade, Md. [wink]
Fort Meade.... thats in Laurel, MD... go figure. Good job FatJimmy. Keep posting and good luck hunting!!