Help needed

[Bigmeat]

Took my boat out a while back for the first run of the year, 1996 40hp merc. 2stroke, started and ran fine, new gas, even added 10oz of seafoam to 10 brand new gallons of gas. Ran 8 miles up river without a hitch, fished a bit, then started back to ramp. Would start fine but when put in gear and started to give throttle it would stall out. Did this over and over till i gave up and got a tow back in. Took to local shop and they said when hooked up to their gas it runs fine but when hooked to my gas line and tank it shuts right down. Recommended new gas and happy fishing! My gas was new. I'm thinking of either the gas line and bulb needs changed or maybe the fuel pickup in the tank itself. It's a red "plastic" 12 gallon removable tank. Anybody have any thoughts to the contrary or where you would start? I've searched the internet but can't find the fuel withdrawal parts that i would like to change without having to purchase an entirely new tank. Thanks for any help.

[WildeOne]

Is the primer bulb a Merc or aftermarket part? I've never trusted the after market pieces.
==============================
Jim
23' Grady White Gulfstream "Get Reel"
Ocean Pines, MD

[Bigmeat]

I'm not sure, I bought the boat used a few years back and it's the same primer bulb that I've used since i've owned it. Are there filters in or around the primer bulb? maybe i could just change the bulb or bulb and line and be fine. That's my first inclination but really have no idea.

[Spearo]

Change the bulb. Do you mix your own gas?

[Bob H.]

If the bulb was pumped up, engine started, then immediately put in gear, there's plenty of fuel in the bowl to keep the engine running. If the bulb is getting sucked flat there's blockage in the tank. Fuel pump can be ruled out since it worked in the shop. Neutral safety switch is questionable since there's no detail on how long it ran prior to putting in gear (empty fuel bowl). Dump the fuel tank and check the screen.

[Bigmeat]

I don't mix my own gas, it mix's on its own, ie:oil injected. It would run in neutral for as long as i wanted it to, did not notice bulb getting flat at any point. I even tried to continually manually pump the bulb when i put it in forward however that produced the same results, quick shutdown. Bob you say "check the screen", sorry for my ignorance but where is the screen you speak of located? Thanks for all the help.

[Bob H.]

Screen is on the end of pickup tube in the fuel tank. I don't know exactly what the shop did but the neutral safety switch in the shifter is suspect. I aasume your definition of quick shutdown is immediate shutdown and that's an ignition problem, not fuel. Check the safety switch and wiring.

[Bigmeat]

I'll start with changing the fuel and checking the screen. Hopefully that will do the trick, if not i'll have to call in more mechanically inclined help than myself! Thanks again for all the help. Bob, how soon can you be in Hagerstown, just kidding!

[edgewater1]

leak in the gas line

[Bigmeat]

no leaks that i have seen but i'll double check, i'm gonna start to dig into this problem later this afternoon and this weekend. I purchased a new bulb just incase the fuel swap and screen cleaning do not do the trick. I'll keep you posted, thanks again.

[greenline8]

check the fuel pickup tube in the tank, it may not be seated correctly. I had heard about this about four times this year. when you pull the tube out from the tank, after unscrewing the top, the tube will fall right out. a couple of my friends had the same exact symptoms you had.

[flounderman06]

is your vent open?????

[bottom scratcher]

If it starts and runs at idle and stalls under acceleration, I would suspect the high speed jet in the carb. Those symptoms have been an ongoing issue with the change to ethanol in older engines. Cleaning the carbs will resolve the issue.

Greenline8 had a good point as ethanol is affecting plastic tanks. The tanks themselves are safe but the non metal parts can be affected severely. I've seen where the pick up tubes in six gallon tanks have split open and in some cases completely fallen off. The information below came in a letter from Moeller Corporation which build plastic tanks for the marine industry. It is reproduced here with permission from the owner of another boating forum.


"Are you aware if (boat mfg name removed) fuel tanks and parts of the fuel tanks can and will withstand the use of E-10 ethanol fuel?"


Answer:The Energy Policy Act of 2005 requires ethanol production to nearly double in the US by 2012. The EPA, which is responsible for setting Federal Guidelines that regulate fuel content, is allowing a 10% ethanol and gasoline blend for common engine use: percentages higher than E-10 are currently prohibited. The potential effects of E-10 and E-85 fuels on existing marketed products remain one to be wary of:

1. Ethanol is hygroscopic, mixing more easily with water than gasoline.
Fuel Tank Shell will not be impacted.
May lead to serious damage to some fuel system components- regular
maintenance recommended.
2. Ethanol increases fuel electrical conductivity.
Promotes metal corrosion of system components
Most of the "molded in inserts" are encapsulated thus a non-issue.
We are waiting to hear back from our sending unit companies to validate their senders are E-10 compatible.
3. Ethanol blends, such as E-10 affect the integrity of some gaskets and other non-metal materials.
Can cause common materials to swell in excess of 35% and shrink by 6%.
Already working on improving our pick-up tube material to provide
greater compatibility with blends.

With this being indicated fuel systems going forward will need Water separation filters, which Moeller Marine can provide. This will reduce and minimize Ethanol related issues."

[Bob H.]

It's not an E10 problem and neither are the fuel pickup tubes. E10 sux, wanna buy a gummed up Kawasaki (not my new bike BK), but anything marine in the 90's should not be a effected by alcohol fuel.

[Bigmeat]

Had my bro-in-law over last night to try and help me resolve the issue, much more mechanical knowledge than myself. He wanted me to start it up and let him watch/listen to the problem before we did anything. I do open the vent when i start it. Same gas, same everything as when i took it to the shop. It started right up and idled fine for a good 60 seconds before i decided to put it in gear, if it was bad gas or a gas line issue 60 seconds should have revealed that i would think, appeard to him to be getting plenty of good gas from the tank. I put it in gear and accelerated, ran great, put back in nuetral, put in reverse, still running fine, put back in forward, still running fine. Everything appears fine and i haven't done a thing other than miss most of the fishing season wondering what's wrong with my boat! We pulled the fuel withdrawl tube from the tank and it was attached firmly with no cracks or issues we could see. Took the line off the tank and motor and blew it out completey. While it was running i tried the safety switch just to see if it worked and it did shut the motor right down so i'm not sure if there is a wiring issue within that or not but it is hooked up and working. I'm at a loss really unless there was a small clog somewhere that has since worked it's way free. thanks for all the replies and help, i hope to get the boat on the water this coming weekend and hope all goes well.

[Bigmeat]

Took it out last night for a trial run before hauling it to the bay, started and ran fine, ran for about 30 minutes at various speeds, turned it off and fished a bit(5 minutes), started back up to move and it did fine, turned off again, now's where the fun begins, fished another 5 minutes, started back up and when i put it in gear it stalled, started again, stalled again when put in gear. started again and got it going a little faster and then it stalled again. Finally started it again on the 4th try and got it to run fine again and managed to get back to ramp with no more issues, even ran it fast and slow in front of the ramp and it now seemed fine. I dunno. Makes me wonder if i don't turn it off at all like if i was crabbing would i see any problems?? Only seems to be an issue when i start and stop. Something isn't quite right but how do you fix something that only becomes a problem after 45 minutes of good running? I'm clueless. Anybody wanna buy it, seriously, I got 2 kids that always wanna go on the boat but i never feel safe enough taking them on this current boat, time to step up to a new, bigger boat.

[GDR]

I had intermittent problem like you describe and by chance found that parts of the fuel line's inner hose had collapsed and partially clogged the line to reduce flow only at high demand times. Suggest you remove you fuel lines and check thoroughly. Gary

[Bob H.]

Something is floating around in the fuel system. Is there an external filter (aka Racor)? If not, the fuel pump is a good place for small debris to get lodged. Pumps are very cheap to replace once you open the system up. Since the problem is intermittent I would completely tear down the fuel system and clean everything - including the carbs. It's not that big a task.

[Bigmeat]

Thanks for all the help, I ran it by the previous owner and he said he had had the same issues from time to time, he suggested cleaning the carbs as well as that always seemed to work for him. If i can get my bro-in-law lined up i'll have him tear into the cleaning process, he's a bit of a small engine guy so hopefully he'll know one part from another and how to get it back together once we tear it apart. Once we get it fixed it'll be on the sale block then i'm stepping up to the 4 stroke business and hopefully move away from some of these 2 stroke issues, fingers crossed! Thanks again.

[Bob H.]

The issues won't go away simply by mounting a 4-stroke on the transom, you'll have a new set of issues. A better solution would be to add a good fuel filtering system and replace old fuel lines.

[Capt. Skid]

Just for giggles, change the gas line from the tank to the engine.
Somewhere inside the present line, it maybe deterating, it`s not
like it will cost and arm and leg and might fix your problem. At the least
you will have a spare fuel dilvery line.. Couldn`t hurt. My .02.

Capt.Skid

[Bigmeat]

Just so happened to have picked up a new gas line at basspro this past sunday, plan to change that and hit the carb with a full spray bottle of carb and engine cleaner and see how she goes from there. Thanks for all the help everybody.

[dwkoller]

I had a similar problem, the motor would stall ever now and then, it was very random. I took a portable gas tank and hose with me out on the boat. When the motor acted up connected to the main tank, I switched tanks and the motor would run fine. I checked the filters, they were fine. Replace the bulb and hoses, same problem. Rebuilt carbs, problem still there. Checked pick-up tube, its okay. The motor would still stall and after waiting 5-10 minutes it would start and run fine until it stalled again. I hooked up a fuel pressure gauge and ran the motor, when it stalled and wouldn't start I had very little pressure. So its the fuel pump -- rebuilt the fuel pump. I think I've got it fix and the damn thing stalls again. I finally drained and pulled the tank -- in the tank was a price sticker from a plastic gas.

The only thing I can figure is the price tag must have been on the nozzle of the gas can. While pouring gas from the can into the tank, the gas softened the glue, the tag end up going into the tank. Ever now and then the tag would block the pick-up.

If your tank was not completely empty before you added the gas, I'd still drain the gas. Remove the fuel line from the connector at the motor. Using the bulb, start the flow of gas. I'd use a clear plastic container to collect the fuel. If it looks okay -- dump it into your car's tank. Remove the fuel sensor from the top of the tank and siphon remaining gas. I'm willing to bet the fuel has separated.

Once the tank has been emptied and filled with fresh gas,change the inline and under the cowling fuel filter. Run the boat, hopefully the problem is gone. If problem still exists, attach fuel pressure gauge and take the boat for a run. Check your pressure against the motor specs -- the pressure should be fairly constant.

I'm in Havre de Grace, if you're nearby I'd be glad to help you troubleshoot the motor.

Do you have a fuel/water separator filter in line?

Good luck.

Dan

[Bigmeat]

"Do you have a fuel/water separator filter in line?"

I can only assume the answer is no i don't but i really have no idea. I'm in Hagerstown so a good ways from you but thanks for the offer. I printed out all the advice and will certainly try it all. My bro-in-law knows his way around a motor and he lives just down the street so I'll get him to tear it up soon. I'll bounce the results good or bad off you guys. Thanks again.