OI Disaster

[Kayak fisherman]

Went out of OI this weekend. Took some friends. There were apparently wildfires in NC and the smoke carried out almost to the Gulf Stream. Been out of OI many times on charters (with some of the same people I took this weekend), but this was the first time on my own boat. I followed some dudes out of the inlet, and zipped out to the Hole and the Point areas. Beautiful, calm ride with lotsa whales and mammal-dolphins. Went 53 miles to the two hotspots and all the other boats were there. Put the outriggers up and hung a 6-line spread (ReelDraggin' Tackle stuff). I was trolling around with everybody else. Had ballyhoo but hadn't added that into the mix just yet.

We were there! The fish were there! The timing was right! Boats were catching them. Everything was perfect. All the gear was mine and was prepared by me, from the boat to the hooks, and everything was just right. I even re-calibrated my new radar I had installed last year and it worked fine. I told the guys with me to get their fighting belts on and they could catch the first tuna/mahi mahi. I was going to put them on the fish. It was one of the happiest moments in my life.

Then, it happened.......... One of my longtime friends, a nice but fairly stubborn guy on occasion, turned into the biggest nimrod I have ever been around. He basically told me he didn't agree with the concept of trolling for fish and he was gonna show me how to do things.

Mind you, the only gear he brought was his hat and his lunch. He's never had a boat and he really doesn't own any fishing gear (beyond the basic crap you get at Target. Not WalMart. TARGET). He commenced taking down my rigs and very obnoxiously starting arguing about I didn't have a clue how to fish. We got into a big argument (no, no one was drinking) and then........

Anyway, I'll spare the details. I'll just say this. The fish were there, we were there (I had just been off HI a few weeks ago and we caught 'em on the same setup) and we would have come home with a boat full of fish.

This weekend was one which I wish had never happened. It was the perfect weekend totally ruined by someone I thought I knew very well, only to discover how idiotic and stubborn he could be. I cannot begin to list the careless things he did and did not realize he was doing. I bit my lip and just kept telling myself I would never allow that kind of situation to occur again.
:death:

[rbr]

Live and learn, however I don't hesatate to point out who is Capt. on my boat. Keep that in mind.

Bert

[Russ D]

Damn man that really has to suck. That's why the captain is in charge no matter what. You know that far out at sea you where within your lgal rights to make his ass walk the plank!

[Raymond56]

Sorry for the bad day ya had man shame wanst nuther boat ya could have thrown him on. Live and learn i guess just one them thangs

[b8 boy]

Sorry to hear of your bad trip. I know personally I am eager to learn others techniques so I watch learn and if the day is a failure(not due to lack of fish around) I wouldnt fish with them again. To argue with the captn is mutiny and un called for. I guess he will get the point when you dont invite him the next trip. Hope you next trip is your best ever. Martin

[Kayak fisherman]

I know I must sound whiney, but you guys just don't know how heartaching it was.

I was SOOOO overprepared. My boat is SOOOO well-equipped. I've got every lure and rig I could find. I have logged over 900 miles on this brand new boat and have worked out the kinks. Until reading your responses, I thought I had everything Bass Pro and Boater's World and Bishop's have to offer. Not one of those stores sells a "Plank". I'm definitely gonna get one of those.

It's just not in my nature to invite someone to go fishing (even though he was BEGGING to go) and then tell him "Hey, it's MY boat, so you just shut the f$#k up." However, it IS in my nature never to take him again. I told him how mad I was out there and it bounced off him like it was nothing. Never taking him again will give him the message.

Still, I'm gonna get one of those planks.

By the way, after I gave up on fishing, I cleaned up the boat, hit the kill switch on it (not a great idea, I know, but my boat's new so it'll restart) and I did what any pissed off fisherman would do. I jumped into the water and cooled off. The pussies I was with forgot their bathing suits. MAANNNN, we were in the DEEEEP water and you could see forever. That water's crystal clear. The next time your out there, you owe it to yourself to just stick your head in the water and see what it looks like.

[Reel Draggin Tackle]

Bummer ... you were armed and ready! The year has just begun, every trip is an opportunity to learn. Some lessons are tougher to swallow than others, but they are lessons none the less. Chalk it up and head back out, there's still fish out there.

[GAW]

This may be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on a fishing site---- are you 6 years old?---- you're whinning in public because you don't have the nads to control your guest and you didn't get to play with your favorite toys, is that right?----- What do you want from the readers of this thread???-- a shot of testosterone or kiss on the forehead and hot cup of cocoa?

[Kayak fisherman]

A kiss and cocoa. Hey, that sounds like a good name for a boat. "A Kiss and Cocoa". Seriously though, I just needed to vent. I don't have the nads to do what I should've done because I run into the guy where I work. Your testosterone, kiss & cocoa comment is well taken. I'll get back to talking about fishing and take my crying for some chick website. :hugeachother:

By the way, all the reports I heard on channels 68 through 79 mentioned they were using blue/white (or white/blue) and Pink/white (or pink/white) slammers or skirts. Lots of Mahi, yellowfin and several bigeye. Also, I heard of several marlin hookups, and saw some of the biggest cobia (caught inshore obviously) that I have ever seen.

Also, the coolest setup I've seen lately was a 20ft or so center console with a 10 ft fiberglass stepladder mounted in the middle of it as a tuna tower. That thing was great. It's probably not a new invention, I just haven't seen it before.

[Russ D]

Yeah they run blue/white blue/pink/white almost like a religion down there. It works so they don't change much.

[Kayak fisherman]

We were trolling (for the bried time it lasted, see the above tearful post) at 6-8 mph. I had six lines out. Not to get in trouble for advertising for anybody, but I was using 6 parts of the 7-line spread I got online from RDT. I previously had some luck with this setup off HI. We did slow down a few times to drop 'em deeper and pull 'em up. I also tried trolling at different distances behind the boat. We did switch out some of the flat lines for skirted ballyhoo. We also tried a drone spoon on a planer (like that guy who caught the 285 lb bigeye the other day).

I'm sure we would've caught something if we had trolled longer than very briefly (again, see the first post) but I have a few questions: Would I have been better off putting some ballyhoo or fish strips on the hooks of the spreader bars and green machine-type setups? Should I have had meat all around?

[DC Ben]

I run 6-8 lines usually where two of them are meat. I seem to be in minority preferring plastics though.

[Russ D]

No meat on the spreaders. Just mix in a few Sea wiches rigges with ballyhoo in your spread. The pink will pull int he dolphin and blue/white will catch anything else.

[Kayak fisherman]

Thanks Russ D.

[Russ D]

No prob. Now you just need a planer set-up to go with the rest of the spread. If your fishing OI you need a planer set-up for the wahoo and when the fish go deep.

[peaksjam]

I'm a fan of running meat. Being that, on most of our trips, it's only the captain and I, I've tried running anything that didn't require meat to save on the work load of running ballyhoo. But the simple fact is that, for us, meat catches more fish. The spread that we were running yesterday that seemed to bring them up was blue/white ilander w' meat on the long riggers, birds chain w/ green/yellow feather w/meat on one short rigger, pink and white skirt w/ meat on the other short rigger. Spreader bar on the center flat line with a hooked squid trailer. Cedar plug on port flat line and a skirt w/ meat on the starboard flat line. Weighted, 2 hook green machine WAY BACK on the shotgun, no meat. We ran that spread on two of our hook ups yesterday and, of course, changed it all around all day long. Changing colors, ballyhoo size, etc.. matters sometimes, but sometimes (most of the time, imo), if they're biting, they're biting and your meatless rigs will probably work just as well.
'

[twobyfour]

It seems to me there is big difference in bait preference from HI or OI vs. Wachapreague and points north.. This is somthing you may want to consider. When fishing OI for tuna , use more skirted meat, not necessarly sea witches, but some sort of skirt preferably blue/white, pink/white, pink/blue,. Islander Sea Stars and Jr's work well for me. Get some meat out there, the tuna will come. Dolphin will bite pretty much anything, but greens and pinks work really well. As far as ballyhoo, i won't fish anything other than Baitmaster's or Bionics. And yes there is a big difference between these two and everything else. Rigging the ballyhoo is probably the most important offshore technique. Spend alot of time on proper rigging and it will pay off.
Also, get to the docks and see what the charters are using in the area will you will be fishing. Talk to some mates. If they won't offer any advice, ask another one. These guys do this for a living and use what they use for a reason.
You won't find to many OI boats with a spread like RDT becuase the fish are feeding on different bait fish. There's an old saying, "Match the Hatch". In other words, if the tuna are feeding on flying fish, somthing that emulates a flying fish will do better than somthing that imitates a minnow; this is what the stick boats are do.
I'm not a highly experienced offshore person, these are just my observations and opinions.

[surferbill]

Kayak Fisherman,
There are only two rules on a boat.

Rule number 1: The Captain is always right.

Rule number 2: See rule number 1 :thumbup:

[peaksjam]

That's good advice, 2x4. Bionic and baitmasters are the brands to look for. I've had good hoo from other companies, but the consistency just isn't there. And as far as local information, there's no better source than taking a walk down the docks when the boats come back in. See who's unloading what and look at their rods. Nine times out of ten, they're still rigged up ;-)

[whitebite]

Just curious, what drastic changes did he make to your spread.

I have been fishing out of OI a little more now then in the past and my observation has been that we get the best results when trolling a single bar or two at the most. Lots of meat on blue and white skirts. Believe me, I wish I could reccomend 6 bars and 2 chains because I sell bars and chains but that doesn't seem to do the trick down there. That is unless the tunas are airing out on the flyers, then we put out the lots of blue skippin and jumpin plastic.

[Lance325is]

So... before this all happened? what did you catch?

[Fishboy OV8]

i take it, nothing...... too much plastic ???

[Kayak fisherman]

Whitebite:
How did he change my spread? "He insisted on reeling them in, not using the outriggers and he wanted to hang some cut bait over the side because he thought he saw a weedline. It escalated from there. I said "dude, we're trolling." His comeback was to take all my rigs down and hang ballyhoo on a hook with a leader (none of which he brought or new how to rig). I appeased him and tried to show him the how to rig ballyhoo on the flatlines. I'm telling you man, whoever replied to me above (I think it was GAW) who inferred i was a big pussy, was right. I was standing out there saying to myself "WTF, does this guy have a clue. He went on and on about how to fish one way.....his way". Then he took a nap.

Lance:
What did we catch before all this happened. Nothing. This all hit the fan right when I first got the lines out. I did catch mahi mahi, bonito (they were fun to catch) and miss a few others down at HI on this setup. I caught bonito on the spreaders and mahi mahi on jet birds, as I recall. Came home this weekend empty-handed.

[Lance325is]

Ditch the spreader bar junk and invest some real time in learning how to rig ballyhoo and other natural baits. Spreader bars may catch em but people have caught stripped marlin on flip flops too.

[27 sailfish]

The captain runs the boat- not the crew :thumbup:. Fish bats have other uses :eek:.

[Fishboy OV8]

OI = Meat baits.......... plastics are for Northern waters

Heard of Green machines working on a spreader way back down the center...... other than that, meat........ Oh did I mention you need more Meat baits

[peaksjam]

Ditch the spreader bar junk and invest some real time in learning how to rig ballyhoo and other natural baits. Spreader bars may catch em but people have caught stripped marlin on flip flops too.

If flip flops worked as consistently as spreader bars do, I'd use the hell out of them, too.

[Kayak fisherman]

I'll admit I probably should've started with more meat, but I went out planning to troll with plastic and then add some ballyhoo into the mix (on the middle lines). I also had cut bait in case we got a chance to chunk at something and I had one jigging rod.

I can rig ballyhoo fairly well but I'm no pro at it. I learned how to do it watching rigging videos on YouTube, believe it or not. I like putting the barrel weight up in the gills, wiring or tying it shut. I have used the hooks with the short, metal-beaded leader strung through the ballyhoo with a mortician's needle. I know I've got a long way to go though.

Regarding this weekend's trip (see first post), I got so ticked off when I watched this dude mutilate three ballyhoo before he figured out to keep one on the hook. Then he ran it no more than 15-20 ft behind the boat, directly in the propwash and said "THAT's how you do it." Then he went took nap. I just sat there and thought about my next trip.

Man, I'm so ready to get out there again. If you're out there, you can recognize me by the plank sticking off the side of the boat.

On the upside, I couldn't have asked for a better first trip from OI. Got through the inlet well, the ocean was calm and I had no problems with equipment. Used about 47 gallons of gas for the round trip.

[Tuna Tyme]

The lesson you need to learn from this is as the OWNER and CAPTAIN of your vessel YOU are in charge, when things are bad YOU need to take controll and stay in controll. With the state of mind you were in letting that IDOT tell you what you are doing wrong, if that happens when lives are on the line and YOU listing to him or anyone like him then people on your watch could die. That would be the real OI Disastar.

ON the fishing note Learn your boat find out what catches in the area you are fishing in. If you need to get on a walk on charter with a digital camera and get pics of the rigs and take notes of what the mates are doing then DO IT. What ever it takes find a spread that catches fish on your boat and STICK with it, fish it time in and time out. I was been in my boat in the same area you were in and watched fish being caught all day and we got SKUNKED. One time had 2 of the best tuna fisherman I know with me and at about 2:30 they said F it stop on top of the next school you see and we are going to cut up the Ballys and chunk them up ( its in their blood they are from OC MD). It didnt sit well with me but im dealing with 70 year of tuna fishing experance and guess what we had the only bent rods around. Listen to the wise fisherman and use the fish bat on the ballbags!!! No matter what MAN UP

[c-note]

let that dude know he has a spot on my boat we will set him straight. :thumbup:

Find fun people to fish that know what they are doing thats the best part of fishing.

[whitebite]

OI = Meat baits.......... plastics are for Northern waters

Heard of Green machines working on a spreader way back down the center...... other than that, meat........ Oh did I mention you need more Meat baits


man I love this comment and Lance's comment on ditching the plastic junk. Last week Jake and I walked the docks at OI fishing center and pirates cove handing out some samples and t-shirts. I think just about every charter boat at the fishing center had a collection of bars. big bars! I started asking a few how often the trolled them and they all pretty much said every damn day we tuna fsh, two em, way back. I kinda knew that was there tactic but wanted to hear it myslf. When I fished there a couple weeks ago I sat there with a note pad on the bridge and counted the charter boats that were trolling spreader bars - I counted 22 charter boats that had two spreader bars, 5 that had 1 spreader and 3 that had 0 spreader bars.

The big thing is they don't ususally troll them close to the boat and they don't troll a spread full of spreader bars and the don't troll meat as there hooked bait. The latter is key. the reason for a plastic hooked bait is that when it gets mauled and missed the fish will not come back to a destroyed ballyhoo, but on a green machine or squid they will keep coming back until they are hooked or stunned.

BTW - The big rock starts today in morehead. On saturday the ladies tournament was held and the winning fish was caught on.....................................plastic. just like the winning fish of last years Big Rock. I love my ballyhoo and the majority of my spread is always ballyhoo but plastic raises fish, meat catches fish. A good combination that suits the individual boat is usually best.

[bumgarner78]

Curious as to what type of samples and t-shirts you we're handing out?

[whitebite]

Squidnation T-shirts and samples. Our products are now in whalebone tackle. So we went down there to try and promote our stuff and tell everyone that they can be purchased at whalebone. Check em out.

[capt. jakeg]

I have fished down there for years and I have almost always used bars down there when tuna fishing. As stated earlier, they should be WAYYYY back, but when fishing is slow- 99% of the time, majority of the tuna bites you get on a slow day fishing are gonna be on that way back bar. Other than that, I will run daisy chains of plastics somewhere close to the boat, but all others are gonna be meat baits. South of the point, I dont use a bar and north into virginia, I will use three or four bars.

Anytime you are on your boat, you need full control of it. You shouldnt have even given the guy an audience and told him that if he wanted to be like that, dont worry about paying for fuel, get up front and go to sleep and that you would part ways when you got in. If he wont agree with that, take the boat in and beat him over the head with a tire iron for ruining your weekend. There is alot of time and effort that goes into offshore fishing and one guy should not be allowed to ruin it or waste the time or money.

I will be back down there at some point this week doing follow ups and Squidnation should be in some other shops down there as well by the end of the month.

[Kayak fisherman]

I love you guys.

Like I said, my plan of attack was plastics and meat, with the spreaders way back. I get the idea that I need to mix it up a little and try new things during the day. I went by some of the charter boat guys and some volunteered help. I talked to several guys at the dock who had very good luck. I got similar feedback: "Sh%t man, just troll anything in the water, whatever happens to work."

[notenoughigloo]

meat is king offshore the outerbanks for tuna, "mixing it up" is fine as long as you run some meat naked and mix it up some meat with skirts. first thing in the water meat. plastic is great for teasers, but meat gets blood in the boat. meat meat meat. meat! if you spent one day on a charter watching the mate rig baits, then later picked up any ratty pack of ballyhoos and you practiced, you'll have pretty smooth running, alive looking, long lasting meat too.

as for the pushy dim bulb... with all time, hard work and money that goes along with offshore fishing, as few and precious those times you can actually get into the blue water on your personal vessel when fish are biting and the weather doesnt blow.... i'll be god damned if somebody sabotages my day in the gulfstream with bad advice, i would have told that dude "sorry, we're going to pull those bally-hoo, this works" in a way there was NO confusion, if the fishing debate was still active i'd say, "grab a coke, sit down and enjoy the boat ride, i'm running this show" and for everyone's sake that had better work, the 3rd step is less vocal.

[Shaun Biddiscombe]

" and for everyone's sake that had better work, the 3rd step is less vocal.[/QUOTE]
Yes, less vocal but that 3rd step just seems to get the point across so much better. Sorry to hear about the bad day. We didn't do to much better fishing up north but I did have a great crew and a lot of fun.

[Fishboy OV8]

Ok, I see you quoted me..... I didn't mean to imply that ALL plastic is bad.... matter of fact when I fish out of OI , we pull a spreader bar waaaaay back down the center 99% of the time and it produces, but I've had little luck catching tuna w/ plastic baits on rigger clips, teasers are fine. Hoo's are a man's best friend at OI.

[skirtchaser1]

man I love this comment and Lance's comment on ditching the plastic junk. Last week Jake and I walked the docks at OI fishing center and pirates cove handing out some samples and t-shirts. I think just about every charter boat at the fishing center had a collection of bars. big bars! I started asking a few how often the trolled them and they all pretty much said every damn day we tuna fsh, two em, way back. I kinda knew that was there tactic but wanted to hear it myslf. When I fished there a couple weeks ago I sat there with a note pad on the bridge and counted the charter boats that were trolling spreader bars - I counted 22 charter boats that had two spreader bars, 5 that had 1 spreader and 3 that had 0 spreader bars.

The big thing is they don't ususally troll them close to the boat and they don't troll a spread full of spreader bars and the don't troll meat as there hooked bait. The latter is key. the reason for a plastic hooked bait is that when it gets mauled and missed the fish will not come back to a destroyed ballyhoo, but on a green machine or squid they will keep coming back until they are hooked or stunned.

BTW - The big rock starts today in morehead. On saturday the ladies tournament was held and the winning fish was caught on.....................................plastic. just like the winning fish of last years Big Rock. I love my ballyhoo and the majority of my spread is always ballyhoo but plastic raises fish, meat catches fish. A good combination that suits the individual boat is usually best.



Bill and Jake are right on, and I've caught more than a few tuna on a spreader bar in Hatteras as well. My spread is all meat except a spreader bar or two, but those bars do produce. Bill's comment about the artificial hook bait is dead on.....I've seen tons on tunas blow up on the bar and not come tight, sometimes several times in a row. I jig the bar with my bridge rod and they almost always come back....can't do that with a ballyhoo bait behind the bar.