Deep dredging a fly at the CCNPP "Rips"

[Porkchunker]

If you wanted to get a fly deep in the current, what would you do?

I've tied some heavy "gonzo" flies (basically a clouser on a jig hook) that help me get deep, but I haven't found the right 9 wt fly line to get down in the current.

Recommendations?

Dave

aka

[Shortylong01]

T 14 is the heaviest line I know of to get down fast. (I know this will start some weight vs. thin line conversation but I like the T 14 for get down quick applications)

The way those fish hug the bottom at those RIPS I think it would be a difficult trick to get the line that deep in the strike zone... but it is worth a try... let me know how you do,

[TimeFlies]

Use a Rio T-14 shooting (or something similar, Deep Lake 7,etc) head (length will vary depending on weight of rod, usually about 28-30' with 9 or 10wt rod) and cast as far up current as possible, let the line sink down current until the line is straight (I usually pull off the whole fly line so it sinks as far as it can), then strip it back. Of course, using heavy dumbbell eyes will also help. In addition, use a drift sock to slow down your drift. This will help the line get down below before your boat drifts down current.

[Wild Bill]

TF-

I am with you until you mentioned the drift sock. A sock will only help with wind. Strong current collapses it. I think it would be useless in the Rips.

Dave-

About all you can do is what has been mentioned:

Use a heavy lightly dressed fly.

Use T-14 shooting head or SA Custom Tip Express line.

Cast ahead of the boat up the rip.

It is frowned upon by many CCNPP regulars but it would work better to anchor on the edge of the rip and cast the line up the rip to let it sink some. Your only real chance is on the swing. Once it straightens behind the boat, the line will lift out of the zone.

Paxfish may have some other suggestions. He has probably fly fished the rips more than most.

I had very poor success in the strength of the rip, but when the fish stage down at the end of the rip, they can easily be caught. Your depth finder may not work very well in the strong part of the rip but down off the end you can see the fish on the finder if they are there. Those fish can be caught on the drift with a fly much like anywhere else. I never caught the real big ones there with the fly, but then I only fly fished the rips a couple of times. It is not my favorite place to fish. I think fly fishing the rips is more trouble than it is worth, unless there are fish down off the end. Then it can be fun.

[dpost2]

On a different board, Mark Sedoni (sp?) suggested taping three 10' sections of T-14 (or similar line) together to create a short (10"), heavy head. He claims this concentrates the weight and ,by reducing the length, reduces the water resistence while sinking. He admits that it's not a thing of beauty to cast, but by laying the line on the water on the back cast he can water haul to make a reasonable cast. I haven't tried this, but taping seems a bit crude to me. If I ever try it, I think I'd whip loops to both ends of a 10.5' section and then whip one end of the 2 remainng strands to the looped strand near the loop. I'd then braid the 3 strands tightly and whip the ends when I got to the loop on the far end. Like I said, I haven't tried it but it makes sense and he recommends it for getting down in heavy current. On the other hand, I snag bottom frequently at the rips using a 27' LC-13 head.
I agree with Joe that casting up current and using a heavy fly can only help your cause, but I think I have to disagree with Joe about the drift sock. A drift sock (aka wind sock) is effective in slowing a wind induced drift but not too effective in slowing a current induced drift because the sock is also moving with the current at, more or less, the same speed as the boat.

[Salmo trutta]

It's also about timing when the fish are most active and when the fishing is the best in the rips. Right around now things start to get going there pretty regularly. But maybe it needs more of a warm up. I tried last weekend and it was slow but heard shortly before it was red hot.

Once there is a consecutive bite, the fish are all through the water column and will hit flies more readily. Especially first light and last light. It pays to have access to flag harbor so you can hit first and last light. The fishing can be amazing at these times. Then there's later on past or during the later half of the trophy season. The place gets invaded with schoolies that are often not on the bottom and again all over the water column.

I think Paxfish will say that anchoring helps and a thin diameter sinking line will cut through the fast current better. As for big dumbbell eyes, try watching your fly line when you strip it in and the fly is say 20-30' from the boat in clear water. The belly of the line will usually be deeper than your clouser, hence the fly line is sinking faster than a 1/4oz fly. But if you have to add 1/4 oz or 1/2oz to a fly rod, why not just use a spinning rod? A fly rod is not the tool for the job to cast heavy weight but if you can spread out the weight in a good sinking line than it is a decent tool for getting deep plus a lot more comfortable and safer to cast.

My first big striper over 36" was at the rips on March 1st, 2001 and I was a HO on JayB's boat. I didn't have sinking line that morning but the first cast I made into the boil at first light gave me that big fish and it hit seconds after the 1oz jig hit the water. Then consecutive casts gave me several nice 26" plus fish and every time a fish that size would follow the fish on the line all the way to the boat. Jay was into them with sinking line that morning but he was no where near the bottom. When the morning flurry ended only bottom bouncing jigs right up against the boil worked for smaller fish while we were anchored. I've fished it several times since and found similar patterns.

So either strip out your whole line while drifting and miss god knows how many strikes and only get one cast per drift, or anchor or use a jigging rod. Or wait until the fishing is red hot and the fish are all over the water column so you can make several casts per drift.

[Wild Bill]

But if you have to add 1/4 oz or 1/2oz to a fly rod, why not just use a spinning rod?

Basically I agree with ST's statement. It is sometimes fun to see if you can catch fish on a fly rod in difficult situations. Simon and I caught some nice sea bass in 90' feet of water over a wreck out of Ocean City. We anchored the boat, fished in a mild tide, used a T-14 line, put pinch on lead half way up the leader and cast up towards the bow of the boat. The bass loved the flies and we would catch one each cast as the line got to the back corner of the boat. It was fun but it was a stretch of the equipment. A casting or spinning rod and jig would have been the best tool for the job.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w111/wildbill99/SSB3.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w111/wildbill99/SBI1.jpg

[Porkchunker]

Thanks for the input.

I have an SA Streamer Express, but have never put together my own T-14 to running line configuration. Will have to try that.

I've used the heavy gonzos and the SA Streamer Express to get down 25' onto the oyster bars near the Target Ship with good luck...even in windy conditions where the boat was drifting fairly fast. One can catch a lot of nice croakers on the oyster bars that way. I like the gonzo for that because the hook point rides up and rarely snags the oyster shells.

BTW, rather than tie 3 T-14 heads together in parallel, why not use a much shorter section of lead core trolling line...say a 30 or 50 lb variety? But, if I have to go to those lengths, I agree a spinning rod would work better.

Dave

aka

[TimeFlies]

Thanks for the corrected advice with the "sock", makes sense that it's not as helpful. I know around the CBBT, when there are strong currents it can be tough to get the line down to the strike zone.

[Porkchunker]

I have fished with Walleye Pete twice, and both times, when the wind came up, he tossed out a drift sock connected to the spring cleat. Not only does it slow down the drift to get deeper, but it holds the boat perpendicular to the wind, and dampens the rock/roll. That allows two fly fishermen...one on each end of the boat...to get deeper without tangling with the sock.

I have tossed a 6' diameter sock out several times on my 25 Parker, with success. One time the wind was so strong, that I put two 6' socks out, one behind the other. I was dragging about 50' of line and socks, but it really slowed me down so I could stay on the bottom. One just has to be careful to get the sock far enough back that you can land a fish without tangling with the sock.

They have their place, but I don't think I'd use one at the Rips.

Dave

aka

[boats]

If you don't have a sock you can do the same thing with your anchor line. Put it over off the bow and tie the bitter end to the stern cleat. Just the line no anchor or chain, dragging a loop through the water. Generally does not take much to have the same effect as a sock. If you let out a lot it has more effect than most drift socks. Have to pay attention to were it is casting but it's not hard to cast one rod off the bow and another off the stern staying clear.

Boats

[Wild Bill]

If you don't have a sock you can do the same thing with your anchor line. Put it over off the bow and tie the bitter end to the stern cleat. Just the line no anchor or chain, dragging a loop through the water. Generally does not take much to have the same effect as a sock. If you let out a lot it has more effect than most drift socks. Have to pay attention to were it is casting but it's not hard to cast one rod off the bow and another off the stern staying clear.

Boats

I an not am expert at the CCNPP (fished it maybe a dozen times) but I would not want to drag anything there. It can be violent at times and I have had the boat spin the whole way around in the rip. The rope could be back at the stern and tangled in the motor. It is a potentially dangerous thing to do.

Drift socks, as has been pointed out, are for slowing the drift caused by wind. They are ineffective with boat movement caused by current. Whatever you are dragging will move with the current. I would not want to drag anything at the CCNPP.

[boats]

Agree drags are against wind not current. We use them in open water not around structure or rips. should have made that clear

Boats

[Porkchunker]

I should have indicated that my use of a drift sock has always been in open water...normally when I want to slow the drift over an oyster bar or other structure, due to wind.

One time I tossed the sock off the stern when I was at anchor in Kent Narrows. The sock pulled the boat parallel to a lighted dock, where two of us could work the light line with fly rods. Worked great as long as the current was moving, but as soon as the current died, the wind took control, and that was the end of the easy fishing.

Dave

aka

[27 sailfish]

If you are set about using a flyrod there-try the north side of the rip.Near the beginning boil-you'll see a "seam" maybe 50 feet to the east.This slow eddy might allow a fly line to get near the bottom.I watch fly guys fish there but they only get 1-2 fish.

It's tricky with spinning gear and braided line tossing 1 1/2 oz leadheads.The current has many ups/downs- it is not like a river.

Good luck- the "best" time is the last week of March/first week of April. Skip

[Porkchunker]

Thanks for the tips.

And yes, I've found that seam on the North side of the rips. Have never confirmed that I was down near the bottom though and never caught anything on the fly there. I normally do better out at the end (East) of the rips where the current starts to slow and get fanned out. I can get a heavy gonzo down to the bottom and occasionally pick up a nice fish.

Dave

aka

[Chugger]

Get some lead core also !!

[Flying Fish]

Dave: I've fished the rip a fair bit, and have caught a few fish in the 34-37-inch range with a casting rod and a 1.5-ounce jighead and a Bass Assassin, along with lots of smaller fish. I've caught a few fish there on a fly, but nothing big. It seems to me that using a fly there is problematic because the whole line sinks (or at least the last 15 feet or more of it) and so it's easier to get hung on the bottom than with a jig, where the line goes straight-ish up from the jig. So when you pull a jig, it comes up; when you pull a fly, it moves horizontally. Most times, that's good, but the bottom at the rips is just plain nasty and I've lost more flies there proportionally than jigs. Sometimes the fish aren't near the bottom, but not most times. I still try the fly rod there from time to time, but it really isn't the ideal tool for that job, IMHO, especially if you're after the big fish. When the place fills up with schoolies it's easier. So I'm agreeing with Salmo and Wild Bill (I'd worry if I weren't agreeing with those guys).

What weight is your Streamer Express? Mine is 250 gr, and it works, but I prefer the Rio Deep Lake 7 if I really need to get deep.

FF

[Porkchunker]

???

I'll have to go back and check to see, but I thought it was the kind that could be used on a 14, and cut back to fit lower weights. Maybe I'm not thinking of the same line...will have to go to the basement and check the box.

Dave

aka