Seeking advice on spin rod for shad (gasp!)

[djamieson]

What gets a loyal longrodder interested in spin outfits? Well, a broken right thumb will do it. I busted mine pretty badly a few weeks ago. I won't bore you with details, except to say that involved a deranged lunatic on PCP who's now in the D.C. Jail. I just got the cast off yesterday; the alignment is pretty good, but the thumb won't be 100% for another two to five months. It might be tough throwing sinking lines with a 7 weight all afternoon come April, so I figured I'd learn a little bit about spin fishing. What length, lure weight, and action would I want in a rod for throwing darts over at Fletcher's? While I'm at it, what would I want for reel and line? I actually know very little about spin fishing, but I've been meaning to learn.

Funny thing. When I first saw the orthopedist, he looked at the x-rays and said the thumb had been "pulverized." First thing out of my mouth: "When will I be able to cast a fly rod?" We talked a little bit about the mechanics of casting, then I said, "Oh yeah. I work as a reporter. How long until I'm able to take notes and do my job?" Guess I betrayed my priorities there.

Spring's getting closer....

Dave

[rhahn427]

Ultra light w/10 lb braid or 4lb mono ........... lots of fun on hickories and whites ....... a real blast on 20 lb stripers that eat your shad .......... definitely tests your skills ......

[bluto]

Don't know if this set-up would work for shad but my typical stripper LT rig is a 6' MH (IM 7 or IM 8) rod (1 pc); 15# or 18# braid (Fireline or lately PowerPro); 2500 series reel (Shimano Sahara or equal).

If I were rigging for shad - i'd down size but still use a 1 pc sensitive rod - IM 7, in a pinch use a IM 6, a 5-1/2' rod would work Ok; line - 6 or 8# braid and a 1000 or 1500 series reel.

Dick's may have some nice basic gear. I don't think you need a high end rod (name that is), mine are store brand type.

[ctb]

I'd go for a 7 foot St Croix Premier in Light or Med-Light action. Match this with a 1500 series Shimano Sahara or Symetre. If you are strictly fishing for hickories, opt for the Light Action. I use the Med Light at Conowingo and while it may be a bit heavy for hickories, it's perfect for Whites. It's a good all around outfit.

[ihatework]

One thing-if you're fishing from a boat (fletchers) get a six foot rod. Don't go heavier than 6 pound test. I'd reccomend the shimano stradic 1000-it'll set you back a hundred bucks but the cheaper reels feel like pencil sharpeners. Sorry about the thumb.

[wlybgr]

You have gotten great advice from everyone above. 6 to 6 1/2 foot light to med light action rod should be fine and I would definitely stick with 1000-1500 series Shimano. Braid or mono will work fine. Which ever you choose I would add a barrel swivel to the end of the line (helps prevent twists especially with mono) and then about two feet of fluorocarbon above your jig or dart. Dicks Sporting Goods should have everything you need including shad darts. I would choose some darts in green, yellow, along with red and white in a couple of different sizes. When Fletcher's opens in the spring they also have a great selection and the folks that work there will be able to let you know what colors have been working. A good technique to try would be to cast cross current and let your line sink for about 5-10 seconds and then start your retrieve. If the current is really ripping then I would either add some split shot or a small bullet head weight above the swivel to help get you line down. Best of luck with your thumb and hope this helps.

[The Old Man]

At Fletcher's,. I always fish a 7-foot ultra-light with 8 pound test, tied to a three-way swivel. Then about 3' of fluoro to a 1/4-ounce shad dart and the other part of the 3-way swivel to a flutter spoon in gold (stained water) or silver (clear water).

I hammer 'em with this set-up...you can go with heavier mono, too...they are not leader shy unless you have really clear water, plus you'll get hung up on the bottom (if yer fishing it right) enough that you want stouter line.

...when I'm not catching with a fly rod, that is. I have a gimpy shoulder so I need to rest from fly-casting now and again.

[paxfish]

Sorry to hear about your accident. That sucks!

Consider flipping one of your reels, and using your other arm too. If you're working from a boat in the current, being able to cast with your left won't be so critical.

[Salmo trutta]

The guys using spinning tackle last year were hammering the American (White) Shad. I think on one occasion HJS from the board said he caught 40 or more whites in on Afternoon all on spinning tackle. Not that no fly rodders caught them but the the spinning guys were mostly jigging up and down from a boat and doing very well on white shad.

As for tackle..... any small spinning real with instant anti reverse and a few ball bearings. I like shimino's and something cheap like the sedona will be just fine. Size 1000-2500 on a 6' or 6" high modulus graphite light action or ultra light action rod. High modulus like IM 7 or IM 8 because it will make the rod feel that much more sensitive. So basically any st croix, G Loomis... or even Berkley, Dicks brand....... You shold get something light like 4-8 pound or even 4-6 pound line rated rod with a lure weight of 1/32oz to 7/16th.

Or use a spey rod and forget out the thumb. Who needs a thumb? Or switch hands like Paxfish said.

For the record.... I didn't catch one American Shad last spring when everyone was boasting about how good it was. I use mostly a 7wt with Rio deep lake and had 40+ fish days with Hickories in a couple hours but no American Shad. Oh well....

[Salmo trutta]

Spring's getting closer....

Dave

I heard spring peepers yesterday!

[djamieson]

Many thanks for everyone's great advice. I think I'll make a trip to Dick's or Bass Pro this weekend and gear up. With fly-fishing out of the question right now, it'll be nice buying some fishing gear that doesn't destroy the wallet for once.

[stripstrike]

except to say that involved a deranged lunatic on PCP who's now in the D.C. Jail.
Dave

Longtime TidalFish member was it?????:D

[HJS]

djamieson - I was wonder who would be the first person to mention the "S" word. At Fletchers I use only spinning gear and fish only from shore. I generally carry 2 rods to the river. The main rod is a 6'6" medium action Bionic Blade from BPS with a medium$ grade 2000 series Shimano reel spooled with 6# flame green Fireline and 6' of 8# leader. The smaller rod is a 6' med/lite with a medium grade 1000 series Shimano spooled with 6# mono. I find myself using the heavier outfit the most by far.

Lures: I rarely use traditional shad darts anymore. Over the years I've become very partial to 1.5" twistertails on ~1/16th jigheads. For weight I use a 1/4oz to 3/8oz bullet weight pegged with a round toothpick about 2' above the jig. Color of twister in order of preference - orangetreuse, limetreuse, and Chartreuse/silver glitter. Also have a dozen or two color versions of the 1.5" crappie tubes in reds, greens, chartreuses, whites and every possible combination of said colors. Still though, the vast majority of my hickories and Americans are caught on the twistertails. Spoon of choice for the past couple of years has been the Shad King made by Hildebrandt and sold at every WalMart I've been to. Comes in small and medium and in silver & gold. Get some of each. You'll find that fishing twisters & tubes to be fairly inexpensive compared to shad darts. I can buy a 100 1.5" twisters for around $5.

Unlike many others, I rarely if ever rig up with 2 lures (double rig). The increased likelihood of tangles is many times greater with 2 lures, not worth the trouble. Plus, catching 2 shad at a time is not all its cracked up to be. They tend to fight each other instead of me and doubles rarely if ever jump.

Salmo - Yeah, you definitely missed the big slug of Americans that showed up on May 1. They started showing up only a day or two prior, then wham-bam thank mam, and they were gone. I went back on May 2 and only caught a couple. My entire take of Americans during the previous 5 years has been about 4or5 total. So May1 of 07 was off the charts. Heres the TF report for that infamous day, May 1, 2007, stuff of dreams.

http://www.tidalfish.com/forums/fly-fishing-anglers/203290-ive-never-seen-so-many-american-shad.html

Pics of shad lures. Twisters are in order of preference.

[Salmo trutta]

I just read every post from that thread HJS posted from last year. Damn I want spring to get here.

That Potomac is one moody lady but if you hit her on her good days.... wow she's something.

I strip fast, slow, hang on the bottom, you name it but I still didn't catch any Americans last year on fly or spinning. I think I'm usually chasing stripers by the time the Americans come in.

I've caught 30" brown trout from the upper river, cutthroat trout, brook trout, walleye and now chasing Muskie on her, to hickories till you were covered in enough fish slime to slip and slide back to the car, to stripers bigger than 9 year olds, blue catfish that looked like they swallowed watermelons, bluefish, carp .... but never an American. Maybe I should hurry up and get my Citizenship.

[OneMoreCast]

D... I feel your pain.. I had a meth addict cut his car in half when he hit my truck two summers ago... Couldn't get my insurance to settle with his until he was processed in the baltimore courts.. took weeks.. couldn't tow my boat for half the summer. I wanted to strangle that guy. Can't help with the spinning rod.. haven't used one for years and never on the potomac. Best of luck on the recovery...

[paxfish]

Can't help with the spinning rod.. haven't used one for years .

hahahaha!

[bluto]

ah, but he can 'spin' a tale...

[FishStu]

If you really want to have blast catching shad, try one BPD's microlight spinning rods.
I use a 8 1/2 foot (Bass Pro Shops Micro Lite Graphite Float 'n' Fly Rods (http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&partNumber=74060&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults)

You can throw a small dart, gurb, or spoon a mile and when you hookup the long rod has a lot of flex to avoid pulling the hook. It's about as close to flyfihing as you can get without a flyrod.

[Frog Hair]

When fishing from boat or shore on the Susquehanna River my personal favorite rods (2) for shad are the St.Croix avid series. The one I use the most for hickories is the 7’ ultra light AVS70ULF, but when I’m fishing the base of the dam in the deeper faster water for the big whites and hickories I switch to a 7’ medium fast AVS70MF. As for reels I’ve always had a preference for the smooth drag of the Daiwa’s SS series spooled with 8 lb (3 lb dia) Power Pro or Fireline (I use both). On the end of the 8lb I tie in a short 6 lb 2 foot mono shock leader with a three-way swivel at the end. I next come off the swivels with 4-6 lb mono, high 18 inch and low 24inches with either a double dart/twister tail high low or a high dart low spoon. For me chartreuse has to be the most productive color (everyone has their favorite colors) for darts or twister tails, as for spoons silver or gold it depends, every day is different, I believe it has something to do with the brightness of the day. Unlike the Potomac fishing the Susky is a whole different ball game with waters 6 - 8 foot or less and flows that can range from placid to extreme all within minutes, every day is different. Having said all this I’d rather fly fish for shad any day and look forward to the beginning of the 2 month run beginning the last week in March, sometime sooner if the weather stays warm early. Can’t wait. Hope to see some of you at tiefest next week
Wayne B

[Flying Fish]

wow, what a fine thread, I loved reading this. Thanks, Howard, for some great tips on sp*****g gear. Another rig that seems to work well from a boat is a small sinker with a silver or gold Nungesser spoon tied on a dropper; you bounce the sinker on the bottom, and if anything gets snagged, it's the sinker, not the spoon. Seems to work very well from a boat. I think from shore you'd get the spoon snagged as well. As for line, I just don't see any reason at all to go below 8# test line. A 4-5# American shad on 4# test in that current will keep you there all day, if you land it at all, and when you do get it in, it will be half dead, if not completely dead. I second the Shimano Stradic recommendation.

By the way, even if May 1 was the magic day last season, there were some Americans to be had for a long time. I got about a dozen or so, yet never more than 3 in any one day. All on the fly. I agree, the guys with the sp*****g rods did better on Americans, but I got enough to make me happy. And a fly rod will keep up with or outfish a sp*****g rod on hickories.

FF

[kiko13]

At Fletcher's, if using a sinker, always use a rubber band between your line and the sinker!

Ernie

[HJS]

Flying Fish - You may have a good point about 6# mono being a bit light at Fletchers in light of May 1, 2007. But keep in mind that for the previous 5-7 years, and previous to May 1, 2007, I had only been catching hickory shad at Fletchers with only an occasional very rare American thrown in. So 6# test mono seemed to work out well for me. Then along came May 1, 2007. I will most certainly reconsider whether 6# mono is adequate when Americans are around in high numbers. On the other hand, the 6# Fireline, the line I use the most at Fletchers, is pretty tuff stuff. I don't know it's actual breaking strength but it's gotta be well over 6#. Also, where I was catching the Americans was fortunately in fairly quite water, so they came in pretty fast. I ALWAYS use barbless jigs which helps immensely to unhook shad quick and easy with minimal handling. I do keep a spare spool of 10# mono handy in case flows are unexpectedly high... and now, if I get into Americans again.

Shad fishing on the Susquehanna is a whole different ball game. Flows are stronger there and Americans can be caught with a fair degree of regularity. When fishing shoulder to shoulder in the conga line at the base of Conowingo Dam, spooning with all the other guys, I use only 10# gold Stren on my 6'6" medium rod, gold so everyone can see my line. When you hook an American at the base of the dam, guys will only cut you so much slack before they start casting over you. So you gotta get your fish in fast and 10# test is almost required to get'r done in a timely fashion. Also, the Susky has a nasty habit of eating terminal tackle. I lose 5X more jigs to the Susky then I do at Fletchers, maybe more. And having to break off Fireline then tie on another leader is a royal PITA. So on the Susky I stay with 10# mono.

Late March is not too far away, can't wait.

[Flying Fish]

Ernie, you're right, I forgot to add that I always make sure the sinker is on a lighter line than the spoon, so if anything breaks off it's the sinker. Maybe we should start a lead mine with all the gear at the bottom of the river....But it's rare for me to use anything except a fly rod for shad these days. When the Americans get so thick I'm tempted to change, well, then I start catching a few on the fly rod. Howard, I've seen you fish and I bet you get them in pretty quickly. I was thinking about being on a boat; I've watched guys take forever out there. If you're casting light lures then it's true, 6# or even 4# test is easier to cast.

FF