What Parker is best?

[TimeFlies]

Well, after seeing all of the Parkers down at Harker's Island and the CBBT, I've really been thinking about making a switch to a Parker. I currently have a '92 Mako 221 (it's 22'8") which has been a great boat, but I really like the Parker boats. What would you reccomend for fly fishing - the 23 (SE or other model...)? Based on some of the pics I've seen (Wild Bill, Brandon, etc) most guys don't have any bow storage, T-top or any other clutter. Looks like that maybe the way to go. Starting to work on the wife, but the move might still be a bit away. My only reservation about the Parker are my 3 yound children - fishing boats and seating for kids don't mix too well. Thanks for the help.

[paxfish]

Actually - CC's have been great while raising my boys - they sit up front, fully protected and easy to keep an eye on. Either on the console seat, a cooler or a towable tube. Works great.

I have the 21SE and it's the perfect boat for me. Storage is not an issue. As a fly fisherman, you find yourself taking less and less gear over time, and soon you realize that all that storage was just an enabler. 75% of that crap never gets used.

23SE is nice too, but it's about 700 pounds more, bigger trailer, more fuel etc, and likely you'll want a 3/4 ton or heavy half pu to haul it. If I did more offshore, I'd consider it.

[Chris Newsome]

You may also find the Jones Brothers 23' Cape Fisherman to your liking. Compare it to the Parker SE and see what you think.

Chris

[Wild Bill]

You already have a 23' boat. I would not go backwards in size. I started with an 18' Parker and for the size it felt like a bigger boat, and then got a 21' which gave me a lot more boat. The 21' can fish anywhere the 23' does. The 23' is faster and drier in the same seas. It has a sharper bow entry, more weight and the two foot additional length. Richie Gaines gets a new 23' each year. He told me I would notice as much difference moving from the 21' to 23' as I did from the 18' to 21'. He was right. Many times you get a better ride by giving it some tabs and more power. Richie's 23' is for sale.

The 23' can easily be can be towed with a 1/2 ton truck without any problems. You will not have blistering acceleration but it does just fine. I tow mine about 10,000 miles per year with a half ton Sub.

The 23' Jones is sweet too.

BTW, the bow rail would be in the way for fly fishing. You could still do it. I see some guys fish through what looks like a picket fence on their boats, but it is not ideal. The bow of the 23' is pretty deep and there is little danger of falling over. Guys can fall out the stern of most center consoles, but either they are careless, impaired or the captain applies power too abruptly without warning or looking to see where the guys are.

The only disadvantage I see to the 23' over the 21' is that is costs more.

[Capt. Matt]

I've run a 21 Parker for my business for the last 4.5 yrs. (had an 18 Parker for about 5yrs. prior) and its a great boat, plenty of room and good ride. The 23 is a better choice but down sides are mentioned above and the fact that retail will run you about $10k more than the 21. The Jones brothers as mentioned is a fine choice and they ride exceptionally well, little better than the Parker, only downside from my experiece with them is they draw more water (important if your a shallow water fisherman) and the have a prononced side to side roll when at rest/drifting due to the sharper Vee compared to the Parker and walking side to side you really notice it.

[paxfish]

Here is a nice rail option. It gives your guests something to hold on to, lots of options to tie off an anchor or drift sock, and is out of the way when you're fishing.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chrismoe/jd1.jpg

[Salmo trutta]

I hate the fact that they don't have any storage, built with wood and did I say they don't have any storage? Can't lock your rods out of the way, can't store your gear properly. No lockers,

I prefer boats like sea pros, mako, whaler, triton, or even bass boats. Gosh those things are made with the fishermen inmind. You won't be taking one offshore too often but when you're fly fishing in little wind, like when we all mostly go out, you're good to go.

[Wild Bill]

ST-

Other than my stripping barrels you will not see anything on the deck of my Parker. The 23' has a huge sport console. You just have to learn how to use all that storage space. Even my drink and food cooler for my stuff and my buds is in the console and easily accessible with the lift of the front lid. The electronics cabinet on the 23' also holds lots of stuff besides electronics.

I personally do not like boats with a lot of built in stuff. It is never the way I want it to be. I once fished on a boat with built in horizontal fly rod holders. In three days we broke five rods in those things.

Parkers are not for everyone. They are very plain Jane boats and I really like that. If you want lots of compartments, gadgets and glitz, there are plenty of boats you can buy. If you want a clear deck big enough to hold a dance, the Parker gives you that.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are certainly fancier boats but the Parker is elegant from a functional point. I hope not too many guys buy Parkers. It drives up the demand and price.;-)

Fly fishing boats should be clean, lean and mean.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w111/wildbill99/parker1-1.jpg

Now if you want a fully enhanced Parker, they offer a model they call the Fly Fishermen's Worst Nightmare Edition:D

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w111/wildbill99/radar.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w111/wildbill99/parker2.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w111/wildbill99/parker1.jpg

[Salmo trutta]

Hope too many guys don't buy parkers...??!! Too late for that. They are everywhere with the fly fishing world. That Kent Narrows CCA light tackle tournament was ALL parkers it seemed. I'm sure Harkers is too.

I heard 10 years ago before the fly fishing craze set in, parkers were nothing more than watermen's boats and were dirt cheap in comparison. Something happened in the last 10 years to send their prices sky rocketing.

I like them but part of me doesn't. Mostly the money part.

[Wild Bill]

ST-

One plus on the money aspect is resale value. I bought a 21' in 2000 for $27,000, ran it many hours for four years and sold it for $25,000 cash without advertising. Like everything else, they have gone up since 2000. Try that with many other makes of boats.

There is a reason many fly and light tackle guides run Parkers.

Bob Filger runs a boat brokerage business and he tells me that Parkers are one of the boats that really hold their value along with Regulator and a few others.

I first started looking at them in Chrisfield when the were called Souwesters. The 23 and 25 were popular crabbing boats with the comms. Parker realized the comm market was shrinking and made a few changes and started targeting the rec market. It was the right move.

I liked the old Makos. A 19' Classic was my first serious fishing boat in 1970. I sold it in 1973 when career demands precluded me from using it much. I doubt they are of the same quality now that Tracker Marine is making them.

Fortunately there are many makes to choose from today.

[ctb]

Anyone who is considering a Parker needs to talk with Brian Horsley, a guide on the OBX. He ran Parkers for years and now runs Jones Bros. There might be a promotional aspect to his switch, but he has definite opinions on JB over Parker. He doesn't trash Parker mind you, just thinks the JB has a better ride. I don't run either, so I don't have a dog in the race. Personally, I would go with whatever dealer gives you better price/service.

[Wild Bill]

I would suggest looking at the Jones Cape Fishermen 23 also. They are great fly fishing boats. Here are some comparisons.

Parker 23 SE is longer, 23' vs. 22' 8"

Parker 23 SE is wider, 8' 6" vs. 8'

Parker 23 SE is 14 degrees deadrise at the stern vs 12 degrees in the Jones

Parker 23 SE Weighs 2880# vs. 2350#

Parker 23 SE holds 110 gals of fuel vs. 90 gal

I would enjoy running or fishing out of either boat. It might come down to the location and reputation of the dealer and price. MD is quite lucky in having a premier dealer like Tri-State Marine. I am not so lucky in PA because neither the Jones nor Parker can be purchased here.

The slightly smoother ride may be achieved in the Jones by a slightly better length to width ratio. The longer a boat is for the width the better the ride. A 23 Jones is definitely a smaller boat but a very nice one.

After talking to Capt Brian Horsley, talk to Capt Richie Gaines. They both have a wealth of experience on the water fly fishing and light tackle with clients in their 23' boats.

[Capt Harry]

For all around fishability, Parker 21SE.(At least that's what's on my wish list at the moment for my next move, unless I could somehow afford a 30ft custom carolina flaired bow, single inboard turbo Yanmar diesel, center console.:D I have a Parker 1801 right now.) The 21SE is big enough for open water rough seas, good weight to size ratio, flaired bow, good amount of deadrise in the bow to slice and punch, but still has a shallow enough deadrise in the stern to get in farely skinny water when you want. Both brands are good boats, and you can't go wrong with either. JBs are a little more price wise, have better fit and finish, but just seem narrow beam to me when I get on them, probably console sizes and wide gunnels or something. I've had good experience on both, and in varrying sizes, and I've also been soaked and rugged on them as well. Every boat has limits I guess.:D Also think about how much you will fish alone, 21ft is pushing the limit on what is easily handled by yourself, or with "family" help.
I'm with Bill also on, there are so many choices now days, it can fry the noodle trying to decide what's the best deal, and what fits your needs.(I'll take one of each thanks.:D ) And also as Bill said, what kind of service and support can you get locally should weigh heavily on your choice, especially if buying new.
I've found that searching for the perfect boat, is like searching for the perfect mistress. You'll spend lots of time enjoying her and less time giving her attention; you need her to be sexy, rugged, and she has to love you and perform no matter how bad you treat her.:D Enjoy the hunt!:thumbup:
Later, Harry

[toddkfly]

Harry-
Glad to hear you don't have the Cape Horn on your wish list any more:)) Both Parker and JB are great boats for the flyfisherman. I have had my JB1910LT for 5 years and it fits what I like to do. I can fish shallow in Mobjack Bay or chase the albies in moderate ocean slop. A lot of folks who spend time in the ocean vs. bays keep their front casting deck plain jane. The 1910LT has a slightly elevated casting platform which I like when fishing in shallow water, and also casting to cobia in the bay. I'm 6'3 and I get a good look down at the water from up on the platform. The added storage isn't bad either. Where else could you put a 60lb cobia?:D If I was fishing the ocean greater than 75% of the time, I would go plain Jane for safety and stability reasons. Look forward to seeing what you end up pulling the trigger on.


-Todd

[TimeFlies]

Thanks for all of the help. It's looks like the majority lean toward Parker or JB.

[paxfish]

Yeah - It's hard to miss with them. It's awesome up front without tripping over lockers, raised platforms, etc. And the captain's area, the stern, fishes real nice. And you get about another 10" back there on the 23.

I only wish there was a trolling motor with a long enough shaft and co pilot etc for the 21 SE. I talked to Minn Kota a few years ago, and they said they had one on the drawing board, but nothing produced so far.

And with either brand, you don't have to compromise on quality. No rusty fittings. No spider cracks. No rubrails falling off.

You just gotta pay for it!

It's an awesome time to buy slightly used - there's some killer deals on THT right now for Parkers and other boats.

[Steve00]

:thumbup: TimeFlies--Last year about the same time, I posed the same question. Wild Bill talked me into getting a 23 SE. Took him up on it and have never regretted it. He also gave me some exceptional rigging advice. Fishing the Cheapeake with it's short wave period chop and 20 knot winds around Harkers Island it is absolutely superb. Hit some 4 foot seas earlier this month in the Chesapeake, throttled back and stayed absolutely dry . . . something that never would have happened on my Montauk 17 Whaler where an onboard greenwater shower was more often the rule than not. Once I took on 6 inches of water in that Whaler's cockpit, had to bail water to help out the bildge pump in building seas--not a lot of fun. Bottom line--I love my 23 SE!

Steve

[Wild Bill]

Steve-

Glad you love your 23 SE. I have fished the bay and near shore ocean in a number of boats and never was on any boat the will go really shallow and take fairly big stuff in stride any better. It is a great fly fishing platform and I say that not because I own one. When I moved up from a 21 SE, I could have bought any 23' CC out there. I fished on a boat identical to my 23 SE owned by Capt George Siebold. I could not believe how well it ran in a variety of seas. Fell in love on that day just like a teenager falling for the head cheerleader. The 23 SE has been more faithful, however.

I particularly like the big Carolina flared bow. When the waves get big at Montauk, as they did one day in Sept, you can have confidence that all that displacement in the bow will not dip under a wave in a following sea or head sea. It does great in the big rips at Cape Cod for the same reason.

Simon should have his new 23 Regulator with F350 V8 soon. It will be fun running that beast but you will not see it fishing the Susky Flats or any shallow water. The 23 SE is a fly fishermen's dream because it is so versatile in where it can go. It drafts only 10" of water.

[Capt Harry]

Harry-
Glad to hear you don't have the Cape Horn on your wish list any more:))
-Todd
Don't worry the Cape Horn 31 Offshore with twin E-Tech 250s is still on the top of my list for my hardcore offshore dream boat.:thumbup: In fact if we were ever to win the lottery, my wife has been instructed to have one sitting out front to let me know we won.:eek:
http://www.capth3.com/pics/31.jpg
http://www.capth3.com/pics/boat31.jpg
Cape Horn's are fishing machines built for war!!! I'm a little partial because they are built in my home town, but if you've ever seen one or been on one, you'll want one.:thumbup:
Something like these would do also.
http://www.capth3.com/pics/dream1.jpg
http://www.capth3.com/pics/dream2.jpg
http://www.capth3.com/pics/dream3.jpg
http://www.capth3.com/pics/dream4.jpg
http://www.capth3.com/pics/dream5.jpg

Later, Harry

[TimeFlies]

Harry, are those yellow and blue hull boats also Cape Horn's? They look sweet!!!

[Capt Harry]

Harry, are those yellow and blue hull boats also Cape Horn's?
Nope, custom built cold molded Carolina boats(not popped out of a mold). There are actually quite a few builders out there that produce this style of boat, lots of smaller outfits I can't think of. Some of the bigger ones are Jarret Bay, Buddy Davis, etc....; but they all take DEEP pockets. Beatiful lines, but I've never been on one, so not sure how this style would ride or perform.
Later, Harry

[TimeFlies]

Thanks Harry, they sure are sweet. Even though I would love a new boat, I'm not sure my current Mako 221 is that bad (especially since it's all paid off). I do love the big flared bows - really nice looking.

[DRB]

Both are awesome rigs. This comparison has come up twice a year for the past 4-5 years. My input is always the same. You can't go wrong with either. I have a JB Cape Fisherman 20', and think its great. I also really like the Parkers. That 8" of beam really makes a "bigger" boat- but you may sacrafice a little bit in terms of the "ride". May be interesting for you to speak with Kevin Josenhans, Brian Horsely and Sarah Gardner. They have all taken their guide businesses from Parkers to JB's. I would also be interested in speaking with a guide that has switched from a JB to a Parker. Good Luck.

[Wild Bill]

I suspect the claim that the 23 Cape Fishermen rides better than the 23 SE is a myth, but since I have not ridden the JB, I cannot say for sure. On the 23 SE, the motor trim, tab setting and RPM make a huge difference in the ride. Learn to maximize those three things and the ride in the 23 SE is very good. Some day I will get to ride and fish in a 23 JB Cape and then I will know for sure.

The specifications of the two boats just do not point to a superior ride in the JB. If I were getting a guide's discount on either of these two boats, I would want to work with that company too.

As with Tim Wilson's song, "I Could Be Wrong".

[Brandon]

Hey Gang,

Just caught this thread tonight while waiting for Capt. Matt to get down here at the CBBT so we can fish tomorrow....you better not be reading this Capt. Matt and better be in bed so you can get down here early tomorrow;-)

Anyway, I will just share my experience with you TF. I have had a Parker 21Se since 1999. It's a great boat and has served me well. Right now I am very seriously considering moving up to a 23 or 25ft boat. I am leaning towards a 23ft for trailering and how much the boat draws. I have spent some time in Richie Gaines' 23ft Parker that has a 150hp Yamaha on the back and I have spent a lot of time on Wild Bill's 23ft with his 225hp Yamaha on the back. I will say that in my opinion the 23ft ride is better, no two ways around it. It has a steeper entry and obviously 2 more feet. It is not that the 23ft can do more then my 21ft. I can do exactly the same thing, however the difference is the 23ft is a better ride and you can go faster in a decent chop without getting beat up as much. For me that is making me lean towards selling my 21SE this winter and going with a 23ft boat. I am considering another brand, but I leaning towards the Parker.

I have run a 22ft Grady White for a few years that was my good friends and also a 26ft Regulator. Both of these boats were great. The Grady had all the rod storage and all that stuff, frankly I did not like it, the insert gives you added storage, but makes the inside smaller, I did not like that. The Regulator is a tank, it can go through about anything. The layout of some of the things could be better though and its a bear to trailer, so this is what is making me lean towards a 23ft boat.

If I were in your shoes and already decided on a Parker I would go with a 23ft with a 225hp 4 stroke. The 23 draws exactly the same amount of water as the 21 and gives you the better faster ride with a good amount of room. You already have a 22ft, no sense in doing down.

Regarding towing, I often drive when Wild Bill and I fish together to share in my contribution and his Suburban pulls his 23ft with a fill tank of gas and a lot of gear with no problem. In fact I often forget I am towing it. I tow my Parker 21SE with a v8 Dodge Durango with no problem and have towed Richie's when he let me test it with it and had no issues. I am upgrading towing vehicles and in the middle of the decision process because my truck is getting older, but that is another subject for another thread. Basically my experience would indicate whatever you are pulling your current boat with you will be fine and whatever you were to pull a 21FTSE with you would be fine pulling the 23ft.

Regarding storage. I like to take what I need, not store a ton of stuff. If you get the Parker you will need to build some custom rod racks which a lot of us Parker owners do. I can store more rods then we would need in a day, light tackle and fly rods. Wild Bill has a really nice Parker rod storage set up, probably the best I have seen, that allows him 3 fly rods up front, light tackle and fly rods under the gunnels and a ton standing up on the console. As for other things, the larger center console they make has more room then I think you would ever need. I personally have the smaller console and have plenty of room for all the boat stuff along with jackets and all that stuff. I also have two of the largest boat batteries under my smaller console that are dedicated to my Lenco trim tab trolling motors and still have plenty of room down below. In addition I have the seat cooler and use that for food for the day, some odd tackle and whatever else smaller things. I've never had a problem with storage. Having said that, that is just me, not knowing how much stuff you like to take I would investigate that. The larger console will give you more room. If I go with the 23ft Parker I will still get the smaller console, I prefer more room on the sides of the boat around the console and I will get the live well option on my next one with the leaning post which when the live well is not in use, which is a lot, provides a lot more storage. But its a personal preference.

Best of luck with your choice. If I can be of any help with my opinion from my experiences just let me know.

Happy Holidays and Good Fishing

Brandon

[foulhook]

I suspect the claim that the 23 Cape Fishermen rides better than the 23 SE is a myth, but since I have not ridden the JB, I cannot say for sure. On the 23 SE, the motor trim, tab setting and RPM make a huge difference in the ride. Learn to maximize those three things and the ride in the 23 SE is very good. Some day I will get to ride and fish in a 23 JB Cape and then I will know for sure.

The specifications of the two boats just do not point to a superior ride in the JB. If I were getting a guide's discount on either of these two boats, I would want to work with that company too.

As with Tim Wilson's song, "I Could Be Wrong".

Bill is correct. There is no difference in ride between the 23 CF and the 23SE. Another tidbit: A lot of folks don't know that Jones Brothers used to be a Parker dealer. I guess it was that "Grass is greener" thing. I am sure that Brian gets a deal from JB. Heck all you have to do is click on the Cape fisherman on the JB website and there is a picture that Brian took as the main photo. Apples to Apples really. Between those two boat the one you find at the better price is the right choice.

Having worked in the boat business for over 15 years I will say that Parker resale values are very difficult to beat. In all honesty they keep their value even better than Whaler, Grady, Regulator, etc. I believe I sold 8 used Parkers this season. I don't think one of them sat for longer than two weeks. Jones Brother however, I believe I still have three or four right now. I don't know why because they really are one in the same. Parker's name is just a little better traveled.

All that being said.....If there was such a thing as a 23ft single engine CC Catamaran I would go that way but there is not. You might see me running a 23SE in the spring;-)

Tight lines, Bob

[Brandon]

Paxfish

I will get you details on a trolling motor for the bow of your 21se, I had one and it worked OK, Richie Gaines helped me set it up. He had several on a few of his 21Ses before he moved to 23s. However, once I found the Lenco's I moved to them and would recommend them. Any boat that I get I will have them on it.

Brandon

[Brandon]

Bob

How much are 21Se's going for? Mine is a 1999, 150 Saltwater Series (great shape), Lenco Trim Tab Trolling Motors and all new (like weeks old) top of the line electronics. I was talking to Bill today about it and we were not really sure because they do not really sit on the market that long. Mine might be on the market soon. Just curious as to the market price for these things these days.

Brandon

[foulhook]

Bob

How much are 21Se's going for? Mine is a 1999, 150 Saltwater Series (great shape), Lenco Trim Tab Trolling Motors and all new (like weeks old) top of the line electronics. I was talking to Bill today about it and we were not really sure because they do not really sit on the market that long. Mine might be on the market soon. Just curious as to the market price for these things these days.

Brandon


Hey Brandon,

The 1999 21SE with two stroke power will fetch between 20K and 25K. Unfortunately you don't always get the value back out of things like electronics. Another thing right now effecting the market is the fact there are a lot of leftovers. Dealers are clearing out the 21SE in the low to mid 30K with trailer and F150 power. As soon as dealers clear their inventory the used price can go back up 2K or so.

Hoping to hit CBBT this week weather permitting. Are you heading back down soon?

Tight lines, Bob

[Brandon]

Hi Bob

Thanks, that is what I was guessing. Understand about electronics. I will probably put it on the the market for $25k and take the best offer.

I am at the CBBT today (Friday). Last day before this major blow. Rain is coming with this front so I probably will not fish until around Tuesday of next week. They are calling for gusts up to 50mph tomorrow (Sat) and 45mph on Sunday. I think it will take a day or two for things to settle down after that, then if the weather is good I will be back down.

Brandon

[DRB]

Certainly Parker would not turn down Brian Horsely if he wanted to participate in their "guide program". I think he chose JB...

I agree with foulhook...Parkers are certainly more travelled in the mid Atlantic, and Chesapeake. That is awesome for you Parker guys thinking of selling and moving up.

As mentioned- they are both very good rigs

[foulhook]

Hi Bob

Thanks, that is what I was guessing. Understand about electronics. I will probably put it on the the market for $25k and take the best offer.

I am at the CBBT today (Friday). Last day before this major blow. Rain is coming with this front so I probably will not fish until around Tuesday of next week. They are calling for gusts up to 50mph tomorrow (Sat) and 45mph on Sunday. I think it will take a day or two for things to settle down after that, then if the weather is good I will be back down.

Brandon

Hey Brandon,

I am looking at heading that way Monday and take our time down (About a 7 hour drive for me) Things look to be getting better tuesday. I will stay as long as the winds allow. 2 days, a week, two weeks. I need to get bit!! It's been almost 4 weeks now.

Tightlines, Bob

[Joe N]

I've followed some of this thread but here's my 2 cents worth: I've fished and ridden a lot on both the JB and Parker SE, both 23s. Hands down, the JB is the better and dryer ride of the two. I've been on Brian's JB 15 miles out of OI and run the inlet (him driving not me) when it was less than ideal and was really impressed with the JB ride. I fished another guides JB out of Lakeworth inlet and again in sloppy coniditions and was impressed with the ride. I fished Richie's 23SE on bay proper in good and bad conditions. Good ride but you're not going fast in bad conditions. Brian is not shy about a running a little hot and somehow that boat stays dry. If I was in more sloppy conditions most of the time, it would be the JB. Both are nice boats but that's my thoughts.

[foulhook]

I've followed some of this thread but here's my 2 cents worth: I've fished and ridden a lot on both the JB and Parker SE, both 23s. Hands down, the JB is the better and dryer ride of the two. I've been on Brian's JB 15 miles out of OI and run the inlet (him driving not me) when it was less than ideal and was really impressed with the JB ride. I fished another guides JB out of Lakeworth inlet and again in sloppy coniditions and was impressed with the ride. I fished Richie's 23SE on bay proper in good and bad conditions. Good ride but you're not going fast in bad conditions. Brian is not shy about a running a little hot and somehow that boat stays dry. If I was in more sloppy conditions most of the time, it would be the JB. Both are nice boats but that's my thoughts.

The captians are most likely the difference in this example. These boats are really one in the same with the exception of options and layout. There can be huge differences in the way a boat rides based on the captain knowledge of his vessel and how he likes to run. I personally like to run WOT when it gets rough. Trim down and put the fire in the hole. Smoother ride. I run a Cat and they like to run hot in large chop. Drier and smoother running fast than running easier.

They are both great boats. Like I said before, the only thing that would make me choose between these two is the price.

Tight lines, Bob

[TimeFlies]

Wow!!! I certainly got what I was looking for with this post. I was just checking out the JB 26CF for $65K, it looks awesome. Maybe a bit of trouble towing a boat that big, so most likly I'll be leaning toward the 23. Now the question becomes new or used? I have no problem buying a good used boat (recent model), but a new boat/trailer would be about the best X-mas present I can think of getting. I've been told (by a little birdie) that soon there will be a JB dealer in Annapolis. If that happens, maybe the JB will get the edge (since I live in Annapolis). Either way, it doesn't look like I can wrong. All I need now is a raise.

[wino]

Before you buy a Parker I would check the used ones in Florida. There are plenty of them for sale down here and the prices are cheap. parkers are not very popular in south Florida. The reason is most people want a heavier boat in the big swells found ofshore. Boats like Albury, See Vee, Island runner, Bluewater and Dusky are very popular. I run a boat that draws very little water and is a cult boat down here, 22ft Pathfinder. This boat is a fly fishers dream with a trolling motor and a power pole you can fish anywhere in the bay including the eastern shore island like Bloodsworth and South marsh that have shallow creeks that a Parker or JB would not go. I also fish offshore on days that are 10/15 knots with no problem. Sautrday I am going Sailfishing off Palm beach. I have locked storage for 14 rods including four fly rod tubes. I run a 250 Yamaha that gets me on calm water up to 60 mph, I could do more but I have a tee top. Most of the fly guys don't have a tee top. There is a friend of mine who lives on the Pax river and fishes the bay in his 22ft Pathfinder in almost an weather. Down side is the cost, they are pretty expensive for a 22 ft boat

[paxfish]

Wino said "This boat is a fly fishers dream with a trolling motor and a power pole you can fish anywhere in the bay including the eastern shore island like Bloodsworth and South marsh that have shallow creeks that a Parker or JB would not go."

Steve, Since you're splitting hairs, the Pathfinder draws 11" to the Parker's 10". I fish those islands the same way you did.

[Steve00]

:thumbup:Ditto to what Pax said. Next consider the freeboard between a bayboat and a Parker SE. I had a Montauk 17 which allowed me to fish anywhere on the Chesapeake as long as the winds were below 10 kts. It's freeboard is about the same as that of that of most bay boats. Above 10 knots waves usually are 2 feet or bigger on the Chesapeake if you are in unsheltered water. When the seas broke 2 feet, I got very wet inside the Montauk. The significantly greater feeboard on the Parker is the reason I chose it over any bayboat. It lets me go anywhere in the Chesapeke and stay quite dry in seas up thru 4 feet. That's why I chose a Parker, love that Carolina flare on top of all that freeboard. As one of my compadres called over the radio to me from his Pathfinder at Harker's this past November while fishing the Pt Lookout shoals, "Can I borrow some of your freeboard."

Steve00

[Wild Bill]

You absolutely have not lived until you have fly fished out of a well equipped fly friendly 23 SE--draws 10 inches also.

There I said it.:D:D

Like to add, the responses to questions asking which boat is best of any make have become quite comical. Most of the answers are the boat I bought is the best period, end of discussion, enough said, etc. It is really quite funny. That is why I posted the above comment as a joke. I guess the astute and cautious reader can sift through the entire raft of BS and glean some useful information, but they must be really sharp to do this. Does anyone ever recommend a boat that they did not buy--rarely?

I just bought a new Suburban tow vehicle. I am just waiting for someone to ask which tow vehicle is best so I can say a Suburban, of course.:D:D

[paxfish]

Yeah - People rarely say they made a bad decision on a big purchase. Unless it totally fails.

[Capt Frank]

I fish a 22 ft Shearwater tournament equipped and is set up perfectly for the fishery I guide in SW Fl. That being said, the best made boat I ever owned was the 21 Parker DV. Ive owned about 12 boats. The Parker will go shallow with the SE versions and still has wooden stringers, which I believe are the strongest out there. The DV version had a great ride in heavy water, and I fished rough stuff. I hear the Jones Bros has gone to composit stringers according to an ex Jones Bros guide from Rhode Isl. whom I fish with. He said he is now looking for a Parker due to price and construction in SW Fl, that says something. I checked out the prices on new Parkers, wow, I think I'd be looking for used.

[Wild Bill]

Capt Frank-

Some guys like the wood stringers and some would not own a boat with any wood at all. Guys who are afraid of wood should visit the Parker plant and see what "wood" means. It is two peices of special treated marine grade 1" plywood screwed and glued together to make an extremely strong 2" thick stringer. It is then completely encapsulated with fiberglass matt and resin. The resultant stringer is very strong, tough and somewhat resilient.

On my first 18' Parker I made the mistake of jumping from the dock to the deck. It was so solid it hurt my feet.

The big disadvantage of Parker right now is that they have risen in price. A once moderate price boat is edging towards high price. My 2004 23 SE now costs $15,000 more than I paid for it new. I am going to keep mine. I will repower if need be but my F225 runs like new with 1200 hours on it.

There may be better values in boats today. I am not shopping, so am not sure. The resale is a plus with Parkers, however.

[TimeFlies]

It's been interesting reading everyone's comments about the Parker Vs JB question. I've talked to a few guides (Parker and JB), spoke to people who owned one and then switched to the other, asked this questions on different web sites, spoke to both dealers about the differences, on and on...... A lot of what I've heard really comes down to personal preference and where your using these boats. Some of the items that I have been considering include: Which boat has the best ride, can be fished in different conditions (shallow water), most stable while drifting, deck layout, overall safety, best re-sale value, dealer location/service, cost and options available on boat. No boat can do it all, but some come a bit closer.

[Capt Frank]

Capt Frank-

Some guys like the wood stringers and some would not own a boat with any wood at all. Guys who are afraid of wood should visit the Parker plant and see what "wood" means. It is two peices of special treated marine grade 1" plywood screwed and glued together to make an extremely strong 2" thick stringer. It is then completely encapsulated with fiberglass matt and resin. The resultant stringer is very strong, tough and somewhat resilient.

On my first 18' Parker I made the mistake of jumping from the dock to the deck. It was so solid it hurt my feet.

The big disadvantage of Parker right now is that they have risen in price. A once moderate price boat is edging towards high price. My 2004 23 SE now costs $15,000 more than I paid for it new. I am going to keep mine. I will repower if need be but my F225 runs like new with 1200 hours on it.

There may be better values in boats today. I am not shopping, so am not sure. The resale is a plus with Parkers, however.

Hey Bill
Hows it going? I had Jeff Devon and his sidekick Don with me on a night time snook trip recently, couple dudes you know. Yeah I saw the Parker price increase and had sticker shock. I was somewhat surprised given the economy, but I guess he sells lots of boats and can get the bucks. Its a quality boat compared to most and is as safe as it could be. Had lots of waves over the bow but the water washes right out the back, big safety feature. Hit em good at the CBBT wish I was there.

[Wild Bill]

You are doing the right thing in doing your research. The very best thing would be to fish on the boats you are considering. I had a 21' SE I liked. I did not need a bigger boat because I normally take only one other fly fisher and the 21' had plenty of room.

After a day's fishing on a 23 SE, I was amazed in the difference the sharper entry, added length, better length to width ratio and added weight made in ride and speed through rough stuff. I was sold after one snotty day on the Chesapeake. I was not even shopping for a boat but had to have one after spending time on a buds. Try to get out in both the 23' JB and 23 SE. There are plenty of guides who have them. That will be the best way to know because both boats are great fly fishing platforms.

You have probably gleaned as much as you can from the internet. We all suffer from the "my boat is best" syndrome.

[shiloh]

modify your mako 221 as necessarywhich is a great boat and perfectly fine to fly and lt fish from

dont spend the money which in my opinion would be a waste

[Wild Bill]

Capt Frank-

Doing fine, thank you. Planning to fish the CBBT Jan 6 or the next good stretch. You should be right in the middle of fishing Heaven down there. Know Don well but have never met his friend Jeff. The CBBT and VA Beach make the winter go fast. Hope Jan and Feb are on the mild side.