Help with Snake ID

[Big Cat]

Could you guys help me figure out what type of snake this is?

http://www.catchbigfish.net/TFPictures/snake%20003.jpg

http://www.catchbigfish.net/TFPictures/snake%20004.jpg

http://www.catchbigfish.net/TFPictures/snake%20005.jpg

[LesterLee]

Looks like a Northern water snake.

[Tom Powers]

In poking around I found a really cool guide to snakes in VA.

Snakes of Virginia (http://fwie.fw.vt.edu/vhs/snakes_of_virginia.htm)

It sure looks like a pine snake

http://fwie.fw.vt.edu/vhs/sp_northernpinesnake002.JPG

but they live in the western part of the state. Your profile does not say what town that you are from.

Maybe a brown water snake

http://fwie.fw.vt.edu/vhs/Brown-watersnake-paul-sattler.jpg

The pict of a northern water snake shows stripes not blotches.

http://fwie.fw.vt.edu/vhs/sp_northernwatersnake005.JPG

but what do I know.

Tom

[rattler]

with the shape of the head...cotton mouth, I can't tell how long it is from the pics...copper head is usually much fatter in the middle...but it sure looks like a biter...

[Isabelle]

Kill First Ask Questions Later>>> man, I Hate Snakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Big Cat]

I am from Richmond. I have not killed it. He went under the house. He is pretty small maybe 12-14". It was very aggressive. I tried to poke it around a little and it would coil up and try to bite me. It didnt look like it had any kind of teeth. I think it looks alot like that water snake but there isnt much water where i am. Dont know if that matters... I dint want to kill it if he wasnt dangerous, but if he is he is gonna take a dirt nap.

[Russ D]

Arrow shaped head! Stay away and you might wanna find someone to get rid of them.

[Tom Powers]

My first thought was a timber rattler but I did not see a rattle at the tail.

http://fwie.fw.vt.edu/vhs/sp_timberrattlesnake004.jpg

http://fwie.fw.vt.edu/vhs/sp_timberrattlesnake002.JPG%5BIMG%5Dfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/powers/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpghttp://fwie.fw.vt.edu/vhs/sp_timberrattlesnake002.JPG

Cotton mouth and water snake together.

http://fwie.fw.vt.edu/vhs/ec_page_cottonmouth06.jpg

I agree at first glance I did not like the shape of the head. It seems pretty skinny for a cotton mouth.

Tom

[daf]

Looks more like a hognose snake to me.

[River Lizard]

Big Cat what county do you live in ?

The problem with juvenile snakes is their patterns and colors can change as they become an adult so many times it's hard to ID these. Many snakes are killed because the IDing was not correct. Also some juveniles will flatten their heads in a defensive move to scare the intruder not to attack. They can also puff up their bodies too, to make them seem larger.

Keep in mind that juvenile venomous snakes can be more dangerous than adult venomous snakes, this is because juveniles have not learned to control their injection of venom and usually dump all of it when they bite. Adults keep some venom in reserve in case they are attack again and need to bite again.

Could be a corn snake or a Rat snake.

When in doubt just call a local pet store and ask for a contact name of someone know works with snakes. Usually they will come out and ID the snake and if you want it removed, they take it venomous or not. Most will just relocate it to a safer area.

[Big Cat]

im in henrico.......i was going to just move it but i think i might just kill and then i dont have to worry about it.i saw it again earlier it was sticking its head out of a little whole in the house...i think he will come out later. I irritated him a good bit earlier.

[mikie]

With the size and shape of the head - I think I'd kill it first and ask questions later.

[River Lizard]

I'm in Henrico...Hwy 1 and 295.......if it's around tomorrow PM me your phone number and I'll come over and get it. I'd rather relocate it than to see it killed. I'll dig my snake stick out and a bag.....shouldn't take more than a few minutes to remove it.

[Tom Powers]

Before you kill it take a good look at it's nose. If the tip is turned up and pointed then it is a hog nosed snake and perfectly harmless.

http://www.sfondideldesktop.com/Images-Animals/Snake/Eastern-Hognose-Snake-.Jpg

http://www.in.gov/dnr/public/septoct02/hognose1.jpg

[Big Cat]

This description of the hog nose sound a lot likt my little snake.

"This docile snake is also identifiable by its tendency to inflate its head and neck, coil, hiss and strike when initially disturbed."

I think he is under the house right now hopefullu he will come out tomorrow. I will try to move him.

[capuzzi2]

It is a hatchling Black rat snake. They are attractively patterened as babies and turn black as they grow. Eastern Hognose is a good guess. I have one in an aquarium right now and it does not quite match. Either way it is harmless and should not be killed. Black snakes are prolific eaters of mice.

One way to tell for sure...pick it up...if it bites it is a black snake....if it plays dead/injured it is a hognose. Hognose snakes NEVER bite.

[capuzzi2]

One other thing...Don't remove it. It is in a perfect spot to kill your winter mice.

Read river lizards post. He is dead on.

[mikie]

While you're checking to see if it bites - you might want to call your local hospital and make sure they have the correct anti-venom on hand, just in case everybody's wrong about the species. Better safe than sorry.

[River Lizard]

This is the time of year you want to leave them alone and let them do their work....consuming mice. :D Since mice will be trying to find warm new homes to invade.

When in doubt, don't pick it up or mess with it. If it gets in your house, use a small trash can to sweep it into and then take it outside again. If it continues to get in your house, PM me and I'll relocate it before it gets too cold outside.

[capuzzi2]

While you're checking to see if it bites - you might want to call your local hospital and make sure they have the correct anti-venom on hand, just in case everybody's wrong about the species. Better safe than sorry.


Trust me on this...it is definitely harmless. I am an expert on snakes and reptiles in general.

[RUBLEML]

Check His Eyes If You Can Safely Get Close Enough.roumd Pupils=safe,cat Like=venomous!also See If Its Head Has A Pit Or Sunk In Spot On Top.if It Does It Is Trouble!the Pattern Looks Like A Juvenille Cottonmouth!!

[Brutus]

It is a hatchling Black rat snake. They are attractively patterened as babies and turn black as they grow. Eastern Hognose is a good guess. I have one in an aquarium right now and it does not quite match. Either way it is harmless and should not be killed. Black snakes are prolific eaters of mice.

One way to tell for sure...pick it up...if it bites it is a black snake....if it plays dead/injured it is a hognose. Hognose snakes NEVER bite.



BINGO!!!! capuzzi2 nailed it right on the head..............next question please:clapping2:

[eastduck]

My bet is it is a hognose

[RANGER690]

BigCat, that thing is a "Spitting, rattle-back-copper-moccasin". Highly deadly. Can kill from great distances without ever touching it. In fact, unforturnatly, everyone who has viewed your pictures, will die!

All the best everyone. Use the time you have left to live well.

Dayton

[Harlan seller]

black rat snake - completely harmless aka non-venomous
just trying to defend itself - leave it alone and let it do its job of killing rodents for you.

Black Rat Snake (http://www.fcps.edu/StratfordLandingES/Ecology/mpages/black_rat_snake.htm)

Don't get caught up in the hype of it being something it isn't. :nono:
I'd be more than happy to come down to your house, catch it and show you that it isn;t harmful at all. I'll let it bite me too if you that would make you feel better.

I've caught and kept and bred all types of snakes, lizards , monitors , etc since I was 5 (am now 40).
This is nothing to worry about.

Best,
Jim

[TDLewis]

With the head shaped like it is, it sure doesn't look like a juvenile rat snake to me. Check out how arrow shaped the head is vs. the rat snakes slim head. That head profile is pretty typical among venomous snakes.

I would be very cautious around any snake that looked like that!

[Harlan seller]

see link and scroll down for another pic of the juvenile black ratsnake:

Rat Snake (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/pages/rat.htm)

Note the triangular shape of its head - identical to the one that BigCat took a pic of.

Please remember that all ratsnakes as well as other snake species mimic a rattlesnake by rattling its tail quickly back and forth, they will also flatten their heads and bodies to make themselves appear bigger than they really are, strike and coil back in that traditional "s" shape when threatened.

Like I said, I'd be more than happy to catch it and let it bite me to prove its just a ratsnake.

Jim

[crabby and son]

That snake is a juvenile black rat snake. I have caught many of them. They are a non venomous harmless snakes. They are aggressive as they are small and afraid of a large human being. They eat crickets and small bugs at that age. Good to have around

[Bunkerboz]

Man that head sure would scare me.
They say a good indication if it is venomous or not is if the head is much wider than the neck. Like a triangle.
That sure looks like it to me. but I am certainly no expert at all
look at the botom of this link.
Venemous Snakes in Maryland - Maryland's Wildlife Species - Natural Heritage Program - Wildlife and Heritage Service (http://www.dnr.state.md.us/wildlife/vsnakes.asp)

[Drbrownsuit]

There are easier ways to kill mice without the risk. The last picture I would have taken of that snake would be headless.

[MarkTakacs]

Damn,

Sorry I got in on this one late!

It is sorry we cant get a good ID on this snake right away...............either way it dont need to be killed............relocate it!

What length is it?
over 12-18" and a black rat should lose the juvenile markings

the head does appear the usual triangle of the vipers.

vipers usually also have rough scales (each scale has a ridge)

not a hog-nose
not a copperhead

most constrictors will have an oval head and smooth scales (no ridge)

Mark

[BUDC]

Its good there are people who know good things about these critters, 'cause in my world there are only 2 kinds of snakes---poisonous and dead.

[mikie]

I think the only way we're going to find out for sure, is for one of the snake identifying experts to go and pick it up. If it bites them, we can wait and see if they get sick or die. That way, we'll know for sure if it's poisonous or not and we can narrow down the choices as to what it really is. Got to have something entertaining to do! From the pictures, I'm kind of leaning toward the immature cottonmouth theory, because of the head shape and size.

[Dave Jr.]

Diamond shaped head. Looks dangerous to me.

[FishingRod]

Looks like a newborn Black Rat Snake. Compare the pattern behind the head in the pic below.

You need look at them in the eyeballs, not the shape of their head to tell if they are poisonous. This is from another site.

Eye Pupil Shape- An easy method of telling the difference between a venomous or poisonous versus a non-poisonous snake is to look at the shape of the pupil. Non-poisonous snakes all have a round pupil (in the center of the eye) whereas all poisonous snakes have a vertical elliptical (cat-like) shaped pupil. All pit-vipers (poisonous) also have a small hole (pit) between the nostril and the eye.

http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/images/bratjuv4.jpg
http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/images/bratjuv4.jpg

[Twud]

There is a DNR guy on the Feral Hogs post. Email it to him for an answer.
I would have called it a corn snake, we see them now and again here in Baltimore County.

[Anything-goes]

I know I'm late to the party, but I wanted to add something. For those that are referring to it's triangular shaped head, many snakes will flatten their heads when becoming aggressive. Try pissing off a northern water snake. They look very poisonous when they get defensive and are far more aggressive than any copperhead out there. Flattening heads and rattling tails are two common ways that non poisonous snakes use to ward off predators. Vipers heads remain triangular and don't have round eyes. Black rat snake was my call as soon as I learned that it was under two feet.

BTW - Northern water snakes are most commonly mistaken for copperheads. If you ever want to tell if you're looking at one, flip the tail over and you should see two rows of half moons running down the underside.

Mike