E-shore Va (Oceanside) looking for info. on Fly Fishing!

[nicksflyshop]

I am looking for some information on Fly Fishing the Eastern Shore of VA, on the oceanside around the barrier Islands from Wachapreague to Fisherman's Island.
Has anyone explored or fished this area? I am looking to fish for Specs and Reds if
they are around.

Any insight or information: email me at nick@theeveningrise.com

I am stricktly a catch and release angler!
Thanks :rolleyes:

[Salmo trutta]

Lots of croaker and flounder right now. The place is "gods country" and begs to be explored and figured out. Why I've never caught a spec there I don't know. Never seen any tailing reds either but I really haven't fished it often enough, not even once this year (new born) but quite a few times last summer.

I like to concentrate at the numerous natural "inlets" or breaks in the islands. I wouldn't take my boat outside the inlet because channels are constantly changing and it always looked pretty darn rough from all the shoals out there but I'd fish inside where the tide and current are concentrated. Like I said, lots of flounder, croaker, spike trout (Weakfish), bluefish and Sharks. Some tarpon are being caught in the area too but from what is being posted it's all a bait thing and a gambling thing. After the first NE blow in August, they're gone. Try checking the Va board for more info.

Here's a couple web sites:
ESA Splash Page (http://www.easternshoreadventures.com/)
http://ocsdata.ncd.noaa.gov/BookletChart/12221_BookletChart.pdf
Tide Location Selection for Virginia (http://www.saltwatertides.com/dynamic.dir/virginiasites.html)

[nicksflyshop]

Thanks a bunch for your information.
You are right...it's Gods Country!
Nick

[flies only]

fished the bay side for two yrs now out of cherrystone. met a fly guy there who was extremely tight lipped about that area oyster in particular , that he wouldn't offer any advice. asked if i could charter him for cand r still he declined. he told me to go feed the mosquitoes for 30 to 40 years like he did then i will know the area.:rolleyes: i did see some mongito flounder caught on bait over there though..

[Salmo trutta]

[QUOTE=flies only;876291]he told me to go feed the mosquitoes for 30 to 40 years like he did then i will know the area.:QUOTE]

Now that's funny. That's a similar response I get to most good water that doesn't have hordes of people. It's like that line from a St. Croix add, "The reason we have famous named waters is so that people don't find out about the really good ones." Or something to that affect.

I can't wait to fish some of those islands from shore with a spey rod on a ripping outgoing tide. It's too dangerous to fish that area from a boat on an outgoing and the incoming seems to be much better anyway as fish can start to access all the areas that were exposed during low tide. The maze of slews and channels in that area hold all types of fish but going there on an outgoing could leave you high and dry or worse. One hick up in the engine or beach yourself and that's it. as the current picks up, the waves increase and it's a washing machine mine field out there. No one can get to you and it's a long swim back to land. Now I'm not talking about the entire area around Oyster Ect but only the inlets. That area is half the reason I want a carolina skiff.

[boats]

Come to think of it I have been fishing over there now and then for over 40 years and have been bitten by quite a few flys. It's not as hard as it used to be before GPS I recomend forgetting about the hard heads that are tight lipped and figure it our for yourself. Most of those guys are bait fishermen and know very little about artificals much less about Fly fishing. Some know what they are doing but not many when it comes to light tackle.

Try staying in a narrow geographic area and learning it well. Example I only fish from Oyster ramp south. It's still 18 miles long and 4 or 5 miles wide with 5 inlets and numerous wash overs and cuts. Enougth to explore for a lifetime. You need to be self sufficent, no one is likely to come to help you out of trouble. When I was in the CG and before the Cape Charles Station was open the lower seaside was in Little Creek Stations op area. We never went inside in our 30's and 40's. allways called the game warden when we had someone overdue. I bet it's still the same way.

The inlets can be real dangeous. If you have a boat that will run well inside it's probably not going to be safe in the inlets. If it's inlet and ocean worthy it's probably too big and deep for inside. I go shallow and get to the back side of the islands with a small outfit and stay away from the inlets completly

You need a shallow boat and one that can be poled is best of all. Look the areas over at dead low tide to see what the structure looks like. Save a zillion waypoints then go back later and delete the ones you don't need. USGS quadrangles are better than the nautical charts. more detail and you are going to save the cuts on GPS Plotters are worthless on the sea side except in the bouyed inlets were you don't need them. You are going to save the drops you found anyway. I transfer them in pencil to the paper chart. Some of my paper charts are real old but still usefull marked up with details.

The ocean beaches can be tough for fly rods though. Wind rough surf and sod banks studded with mussel shells to cut you off. Clean bottom is so clean and tide swept it does not hold fish. Structure bottom in the surf hold fish but is about only pratical with heavy casting gear. I drum fish with heavy conventional surf tackle. 30 # mono and 50 or 60 # shock line. It looks like it has been rubbed with a wire brush after landing a nice fish. Several of my fly fishing buddies have tried the surf but never landed anything due to the difficult conditons.

I think you will find the best light tackle sport inside around the marsh grass at high tide and channels and cuts throught the flats when it drains. Those flats look all the same but actualy there are channels that drain them, just a few feet deeper but hold water at any tide. Also a lot of aquaculture clam and oyster beds with deeper water around the seeded areas. Thats what you want to focus on with fly rods.

Boats

[Salmo trutta]

That's very good adivice. Thanks boats.

So the bouyed inlets, are they really accurate? Does the CG update them reguarly? What about all those white poles well inside marking channels? I guess that's the watermens doing?

I've been on a couple of those islands and loved what I saw. I fished some hardware and a little fly but didn't have the problem with the leader. I also didn't catch any noteable fish there either, but have near by in a boat with similar tackle you mentioned. There are only a small handful of islands that are even open to the public but you say for the most part are covered with shells and tackle busting shelves?

What's the fall/winter striper fishery like over there? I know they are around the CBBT and those shoals but what about the islands south of Oyster?

What's the best way to get USGS guadrangle maps for that area?

[boats]

On the Navagation I have a word file with some advice I put together for guys that gives what I think about it. Not that it's the absoulute word just what recomend. And I am no expert. White poles are an enigma, sometimes they mean one thing sometimes another. I stay away from them generaly unless I can see whats around at dead low tide. It's usualy some sort of oyster or claim bed. I can send the e file to you if you like. The new state ramp at Wise point inside the cut will be open soon and save a lot of time running down from Oyster or Kipeopeake park on the bay side. I bet a lot of guys will get in trouble when access is easier, it will attract less than experenced boaters.

Once there was a lot of deep draft navagation on the sea side. Before Virginia Closed the inshore trawl fishery large trawlers worked out of Oyster. Smith Island inlet was bouyed by the CG until fairly recently. Years ago I worked on a Corps of Engineers survey launch and we laid out dredging all over the sea side. I doubt if anything has been dredged lately. The VIP north and south is marked fairly well but not maintained for depth. Now on the south end of the shore it's only Sand Shoal Inlet that is bouyed and I never run in and out. I used to take an annual Tuna trip with a guy that was a good drum fisherman on the lower shore and had a 40 foot bay boat 9 knots at best. He would run out of Sand Shoal about twilight then all night to get to the tuna bite offshore. After fishing all day run slow so he did not have to run the inlet again until sunup the next morning. I think thats still good advice

The Islands all belong to somebody mostly Nature conservencey and good thing too. In Va Beach they would have put 1000 unit condo developments on all of them. However the waterways are open to anyone and Nature conservency allows beach acess for fishing except when nesting birds are involved. We respect there rules and appreceate the access given.

On Stripers no doubt there is a striper fishery but for fly fishing the structure fishing arround the CBBT is so good no reason to try to develop it from the Barrier islands. It's Drum primarly for me. Drum fishing is well worth the effort. There is a good local black drum fishery too. Not fly canadites generaly althought I landed and released a very big one on a 10 wt several years ago. Better places to speck fish on the bay side althought there is some good speck fishing sea side at times. Flounder is about dead due to Virginia favoring the deep water big boat fisherman with regulations. Average sea side shore flounder is smaller. Lots of Croakers and we will hit them with flys at times going and comming. Used to be a good Grey trout fishery but now it's only very small fish under lights. Tarpon are much talked about and it's not hard to see them rolling. Much harder to get a pick up on bait much less a fly. And another matter again to land one. I respect anyone who has caught one and feel sorry for anyone who is trying uncessfully. It's frustrating at best.

Boats

[boats]

Sorry

Quadrangles. Lots of mine are very old. I buy them from Henry Eagletons in Norfolk but list of agents all over are published on the internet. I bet Maryland Nautical in Baltimore can get them. They are off Fort Ave around Hull street.

Boats

[nicksflyshop]

Thanks for all of your insight on the area.
Good advice...Start in the Oyster area and learn as you go.
Thanks,
Nick

[TH]

A great way to explore that area is by kayak. I have spent some time exploring that area and can't get enough of it. For more information on kayak fishing go to TKAA.org. I have done well with the specks and flounder over there but I don't have it figured out yet. You can forget about accurate charts of fishing areas. The inlets are constantly changing.

You will be arrested if you are caught on fishermans Island. They don't play around.

Camping on all of the islands is prohibited year round except for mockhorn island, and some private sections of hog island if you can get permission. Check out South Eastern Expeditions. They offer kayak tours and have access to an oyster watch house for over night trips into the marshes.

If you go once, prepare to go again and again and again.

[thecameraguy]

Boats,
I'm just begining to explore the area in my 16' in boat. Thanks for the info you've posted above. I'm looking to get a 21' Carolina Skiff next year, probably he 21DLV. Any one that can opine on this is welcome.

[thecameraguy]

Here's a contact for Barrier Island access;

bwatson@tnc.org

Bev Watson is at the nature conservatoy and has a nice pamphlet on what islands you can acess.

[mike cozzens]

Boats,

Wow.
Thanks.
No one ever talks about that area and I appreciate the information you shared.

The only thing I can add is buy a stainless prop, a push pole and some shoes you don't mind getting muddy!

Wild area... I wish I could spend more time over there. Not many wild areas left in the world...

Thanks again,
Mike

[paxfish]

BAH! I've been working on a client implementation for my company for several hours here in the wee hours. So I take a break, come over here to read a bit, and that client jumps off the page at me!

The client is The Nature Conservancy! BAH!

[boats]

Love em or hate em. Still compared to developers NC is a welcome option. There idea was to buy land and hold it until the gvmt has the cash to buy and make parks etc out of the property. I don't know of any case were thats actualy happened probably somewere but not on the EShore anyway.

On the shore the way I have the story is in the 60's a private developer started buying up all the islands and mash propertys for development. Had plans for causeways airports hotels marinas etc. Once they owned the majority it turned out it was a shell corpration and the NC was behind all the purchases.

It was real unpopular localy, Counties saw all there dreams of tax dollars go away with the land going into conservation trust. Today Nature Conservency is a pretty good landlord if you are a fisherman or bird watcher. Hope nothing changes.

Boats

[TH]

I am a little bummed about their camping policy on the barrier islands. I can see the logic but I just don't like it. I camped out on Mockhorn island but it just wasn't the same. I look out for the environment, leave the site cleaner than when I found it, and don't build bonfires.

On the bright side, it keeps the number of people down and the wilderness effect up.

[boats]

The camping policy is a strict one too. They overfly with an airplane. While I would like to camp at times I can see a wilderness area so close to a large population would soon be overrun. Since I run a boat the ablity to overnight is not so important. I have a Yak in fact 3 but don't use them often on the Shore. With a Yak to get to the outlying islands it's essential to camp due to the limited range and speed.

Friend of mine camped the whole way down couple of years ago solo in his yak. He traveled light and set up camp after dark left before sunup. It's possable stealth, still I don't break the rules. The NConsvency intent is preservation not recreation. I suspect the liberal fishing policy is because they can't do anything about it. After all the waterways are free to anyone.

I think the regulations on Wreck are different since it's State owned. Mockhorn is a nasty place and I would not want to overnight there unless I had to. Too far from the Ocean.

Boats

[TH]

I stayed three days, two nights on Mockhorn during the first week of this month. The camping was actually nice. The temps were reasonable, the flies and mosquitoes weren't bad but the ticks were out in force. We had a steady breeze off the water every night. The fishing was relatively slow though. If I chose to camp on the outlying islands, they would never know, even if they flew over.

Our kayak club is looking at a mothership trip over there. There are other options besides Mockhorn and renegade camping. I'll have to look into Wreck island again. That would be nice.

[thecameraguy]

Can you give me an idea as where to find the regulations for Wreck Island?

By the way....there is a house on Cedar Island taht we could all chip in and purchase!