Proposed MD Crabbing Regs for 2007

[Neighbor Dave]

I got this from the a Maryland Register (Link Below). DNR is trying to clarify the crabbing regs regarding the catch limits.
But reading one of the changes (Section A-2) I read it this way.
If I am on my licensed boat and have my individual crabbing license (that I get when I license my boat) AND I have another warm body on the boat WITHOUT a license I can keep 2 bushel.
As I understand the regs for 2006 I would need a 2 people on my licensed boat with a crabbing license to keep 2 bushel.
There is a public meeting Friday, January 19, 2007, 6:00 pm at the Tawes State Office Building for public comments. I may need to attand this one.
ND
==================================
http://www.dsd.state.md.us/mdregister/3326/main_register.htm (http://www.dsd.state.md.us/mdregister/3326/main_register.htm)
.10 Recreational Crabbing Catch and Possession Limits—Chesapeake Bay and its Tidal Tributaries.
A. A daily catch limit of a maximum of 2 bushels of hard crabs, and 2 dozen peelers or soft crabs or a combination of 2 dozen peelers and soft crabs, may be caught and possessed if:
(1) Two or more individuals licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes are on a boat, regardless of whether the boat is licensed by the Department as a recreational crabbing boat or under Natural Resources Article, §4-745(d)(2), Annotated Code of Maryland; or
(2) Two or more individuals are on a boat and one individual is licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes and in addition the boat is licensed by the Department as a recreational crabbing boat or under Natural Resources Article, §4-745(d)(2), Annotated Code of Maryland.
B. A daily catch limit of a maximum of 1 bushel of hard crabs, and 2 dozen peelers or soft crabs or a combination of 2 dozen peelers and soft crabs, may be caught and possessed if:
(1) An individual on shore is licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes;
(2) An individual is licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes with either an individual crab license or is on board a boat licensed by the Department as a recreational crabbing boat or under Natural Resources Article, §4-745(d)(2), Annotated Code of Maryland; or
(3) There is no individual licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes aboard a boat licensed by the Department as a recreational crabbing boat or under Natural Resources Article, §4-745(d)(2), Annotated Code of Maryland.
C. A daily catch limit of a maximum of 2 dozen hard crabs, and 1 dozen peelers or soft crabs or a combination of 1 dozen peelers and soft crabs, may be caught and possessed if:
(1) An individual is not licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes; or
(2) A seine is used, regardless of the number of licensed or unlicensed individuals.
D. If there is no individual licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes aboard a boat not licensed by the Department as a recreational crabbing boat or under Natural Resources Article, §4-745(d)(2), Annotated Code of Maryland:
(1) Each individual is allowed a daily catch limit of 2 dozen hard crabs with a maximum of 4 dozen per boat; and
(2) The maximum number of peelers and soft crabs per boat is 1 dozen peelers or soft crabs or a combination of 1 dozen peelers and soft crabs per day.

[mikie]

Looks the same as last year to me. Item (2) states two people in the boat - one of them has a license and the boat is licensed = 2 bushels.

[GMCHUGH]

if the rec crabber has a license and the boat also has a license you can take two bushel of crabs.

[C-Hawk18]

Dave,

If you look at the "Statement of Purpose" in the link you posted you will see the wording change and reason behind it.

In Regulation .10, the language describing recreational catch limits is clarified and a discrepancy in catch limits is corrected. Currently, unlicensed recreational crabbers on an unlicensed vessel may catch 4 dozen hard crabs, but crabbers may only catch 2 dozen from land. There is no practical reason that an unlicensed crabber on an unlicensed boat should be able to catch more than an unlicensed crabber on land. The catch limit on an unlicensed vessel will be lowered to 2 dozen for an unlicensed person with a maximum of 4 dozen per boat, so that it matches the catch limit from land for an unlicensed individual.

[Water_boy]

One thing for sure hasn't changed, the wording is still very confusing.

(2) Two or more individuals are on a boat and one individual is licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes and in addition the boat is licensed by the Department as a recreational crabbing boat or under Natural Resources Article, §4-745(d)(

The way I interpret this (only because I understand their twisted logic) there are two licensed individuals in the boat so they can take two bushels.

Please let us know if you get clairification at the meeting on the 19th.

[rj]

Dave
I am in agreement with you , the proposed new regs do not require that both persons in a recreational crab boat be licensed. just that the 2nd person be present in a boat that is licensed and 1 individual with a license is on board ,,crabbing boat licenses are also issued with a complimentary individual crabbing license,,if you are crabbing from your licensed boat and have your individual license also ,all you would need is 1 other person (not licensed) in order to keep 2 bu..i'm sur that this will be subject to change as the hearings progress

the new regulations have been completly reworded as compared to the old regulations,,most of catch limits ,,however with a few exceptions ,,are about the same


old regulations
-----
A. The daily catch and possession limit for an individual licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes in the Chesapeake Bay and its tidal tributaries is:
(1) 1 bushel of hard crabs; and
(2) 2 dozen peelers or soft crabs or a combination of 2 dozen peelers and soft crabs.
B. The daily catch and possession limit in the Chesapeake Bay and its tidal tributaries for a boat licensed by the Department as a recreational crabbing boat or under Natural Resources Article, §4-745(d)(2), Annotated Code of Maryland, is as follows:
(1) If no individual licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes is on the boat, the daily catch and possession limit is:
(a) 1 bushel of hard crabs per boat; and
(b) 2 dozen peelers or soft crabs per boat or a combination of 2 dozen peelers and soft crabs per boat;
(2) If only one individual licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes is on the boat, the daily catch and possession limit is:
(a) 1 bushel of hard crabs per boat; and
(b) 2 dozen peelers or soft crabs per boat or a combination of 2 dozen peelers and soft crabs per boat;
(3) If two or more individuals licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes are on the boat, the daily catch and possession limit is:
(a) 2 bushels of hard crabs per boat; and
(b) 2 dozen peelers or soft crabs per boat or a combination of 2 dozen peelers and soft crabs per boat.

[Water_boy]

RJ and Dave, I do see your point, I just don't know why they would have worded it that way.

[Antman40]

Dave, from the way I read it you hit the nail on the head!

Proposed NEW REG...
"Two or more individuals are on a boat and one individual is licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes and in addition the boat is licensed by the Department as a recreational crabbing boat or under Natural Resources Article, §4-745(d)(2), Annotated Code of Maryland. "

RJ was right as well but showed us the difference between the old and new(proposed)....

OLD REG...
"(2) If only one individual licensed to catch crabs for recreational purposes is on the boat, the daily catch and possession limit is:
(a) 1 bushel of hard crabs per boat;"

My question is will they "catch" this before the ink dries? Or, given they want this change, what is the reasoning behind the proposed new limits?

Tony

[Neighbor Dave]

The reason behind the change is to clarify the non-licensed catch as C-Hawk18 stated. But in attempting to do so, they changed the wording of most of the regs. I do beleive their intention was to only put in line the unlicensed catch from a boat vs shore, not to change any of the licensed catch limits.

Here's the link to the announcement:
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/notices/2007/010307crabhearing.html (http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/notices/2007/010307crabhearing.html)

ND

[done workin]

As much as I hate to say it, the way I read the proposed wording they have clarified the wording. AT least now they say you can catch XX number of crabs if the following conditions exist vefore it was confusing as hell and you really had to sort through.


Although, if I remember to send it in, my email comment to them for the future would be to...............

AND I SAY IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REQUIRE EVERYONE TO BUY A LICENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and you will be allowed 1 BUSHEL per person up to a MAXIMUM of 2 BUSHEL per boat and you can use any combination of traps MAXIMUM 30 AND A MAXIMUM of 1200' of baited trotline per person MAXIMUM 2400' per boat.

They could sum the regs up in one pargaraph and everyone would understand it.

Crabs are the only species in this F----G state that has the option (To my knowledge) for a license and different bag limits depending on whether or not you buy a license. IT'S STUPID!!!!!

Hunting, must buy license, Non-Tidal fishing, must buy a license, Tidal fishing, must buy a license, freshwater trout, must buy trout stamp, ducks, must buy stamp, ETC,ETC,ETC,ETC,

Would someone please tell me why we have to complicate crabbing so much??????

Please???

Chris

[done workin]

Yeah, you're right Reds, too easy.

Ok then don't make the watefront propoerty owenrs buy one. BUT I guarantee the guy who owns property along any stocked trout stream is still supposed to buy a trout stamp to fish for trout in the creek that runs through is back yard. I hope to God I never hear a waterfront property owner complaining about having to buy a $2 or $5 (Even different fees for Pete's sake) license to catch crabs, when the crab license fees were supposed to be towards research to protect the very crabs that he/she is catching.

Would waterfront property owners who are hunting ducks then be exempt from a hunting license or migratory bird stamps? Yeah, let's try that one.

The whole crabbing license structure has always been stupid.

We used to have a separate rockfish stamp in addition to the tidal license but then they did away with it and just jacked the price of the tidal license up. DUH!!!!

Chris

Does anybody have the email address or a website link to provide public comment. I looked on the website and couldn't really find it?

[peteboy]

Any word on reducing the length of trot lines for us recs? The guys on bluecrab.info posted last month that DNR was looking at reducing the lenght of trot lines for recs to 300 feet? That sounds pretty severe but thats what I read.

[Neighbor Dave]

Here's the link to the Tidal Fish Advisory Committee meeting notes. For the 300 ft trot line proposal see the 2006 April 13th meeting Summary. It's something one of the commercial watermen assiciations proposed. http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/tidalfish/tfacarchives.html

To send public comment, here's a link to the a Blue-Crab.org post.
http://www.blue-crab.org/forum/index.php/topic,13817.0.html

[done workin]

Reds

You're right about the license, although they are still required to buy the stamps, not totally free from the requirements.

Ok, I am the furthest thing from an economics major but here goes. The commercial faction wants the equipment allowances for us rec's dropped so that there are more crabs for them to catch. Once they catch more crabs there will be more crabs available to sell. Once there are more crabs to sell the prices will drop. Once the prices will drop they will have to catch and sell twice (Or whatever %) as many to make the same profit. Ok, the gain is where?


Chris

[Antman40]

Reds

You're right about the license, although they are still required to buy the stamps, not totally free from the requirements.

Ok, I am the furthest thing from an economics major but here goes. The commercial faction wants the equipment allowances for us rec's dropped so that there are more crabs for them to catch. Once they catch more crabs there will be more crabs available to sell. Once there are more crabs to sell the prices will drop. Once the prices will drop they will have to catch and sell twice (Or whatever %) as many to make the same profit. Ok, the gain is where?


Chris

Just to play devils advocate:)

If they put restrictions on rec crabbers to the point that many(as well as those they "supply") will then BUY crabs would this not increase demand?
Increased supply? Do recs take away that many crabs from comms, maybe, but probably not enough to dramaticly increase supply to the point prices would fall way off...:p

Tony

[b.dog]

why can't gov. clearly state what reg's are in a form that don't require hiring a lawyer to read em! no wonder taxs are so confusing.

[Antman40]

Always, a user group will try to push the envelope in their favor. The trick is to be aware of the try and protest it to the fullest extent.

The prices will only drop so much because the cost of doing business has risen a great deal. The trick is be aware of the total of those fixed costs. After all you can sit home and go broke. Why work and go broke;)

This happened as recently as last year (06')......in april and may the price for crabs was so low many guys were pulling their pots because it wasn't worth it....fuel, bait, gas to the water, boat costs..........you will make out about the same just staying home:mad:

Reds, as many of us already know.....you're waterman are usually a Jack of all trades.......in other words they will be able to make money elsewhere when needed!

Tony

[firefighter1962]

i dont have a problem with a reduction in trot line lenght for recs , i think 600 ft would be fine , it just means you would have to spend more time on the water for your bounty. But dont get me wrong im not calling my state rep to have the reg changed either. i would be willing to let the total catch drop to 1 bushel per boat just to let the crabs mature so we have plenty of the critters for future consumption. Im not calling my state rep about that either. Just my own thoughts. Dave

[done workin]

Tony


I didn't mean that recs would buy more because of lower prices, just that people in general might up to the point when they have had enough for the year. The majority of non-crabbers probably don't and wouldn't eat crabs every weekend like alot of us do.



I am just taking a guess at why the commercial watermen would want to restrict the recreational catch and the ability to do so. That reason being, more for them to catch.

The more they catch, the more available to sell, the lower the prices. Gas and bait still cost the same, but they are getting less in return for their catch.

Me personally?, I would be happy if they went to a straight across the board maximum of 1 bushel per boat for recreational crabbers. That would still allow enough crabs for the majority of the time, and still leave a few more in the water to be caught by someone else, don't know who though???? Hmmm.


JUST SIMPLIFY THE REGULATIONS like they say they are trying to. Mandatory license, one limit, one set of equipment allowances and be done with it.

Chris

[done workin]

Here is the response I received from DNR when asking them why the license requirements were so not a straighhtforward as other game in the state. My inquiry to them was basically the the same as I had written further up in this post.


The response, in my opinion is typical B.S.

Some concerns I have have been bolded out in the response below:



Enjoy the reading.

Chris



Hello Chris, you make a valid point, that recreational crabbing licenses need to be simplified. However, even with tidal and non-tidal recreational fishing licenses, there are many exceptions listed. For instance, there are free fishing days and free fishing areas allowing all people to fish without a license, and additionally the following people may fish without a license: riparian landowners can fish for free off their property, people with disabilities, persons of a certain age, and military veterans. There are also different fishing licenses for residents, non-residents, short term fishing licenses, licenses for blind individuals, and boat licenses.

The original framework for the recreational crabbing regulations came from a law passed by the General Assembly. .
In a democracy, everyone gets their say and everyone looks for their particular class to be accorded unique privileges. In putting together the law which created the sport crab license, the General Assembly listened to their constituents. Following the law, as it was written by the legislature, forced DNR to keep the level of detail that is in the present day regulation.

The thinking is that those people buying a license should have a larger share of the resource than those not buying. However, crabbing and eating crabs is a tradition for all Marylanders regardless of social or economic status and therefore those people unable to buy a license should be able to harvest enough for at least a meal for a family. Keeping the limit low should guarantee that they do not have a large impact on crab population status.

Waterfront property owners believe that they should be accorded certain privileges because of their geographical situation and so they receive authorization to use crab pots. A license then provides them with a larger limit.

We want young people to fish and crab and carry this activity and the conservation ethic that goes with it into adulthood. To encourage them to start, they should be able to crab without spending any of their hard earned allowance or feeling constrained because they don’t have a license because they do not have an adult to pay for it or to even go with them to get one.

You are correct in saying the regs are complicated. In the office that draws up regulations and answers many of the questions that come in, we had to create a matrix with 10 different categories of crabbers (with and without license, in a boat, not in a boat, landowner etc.) that creates 4 different allowable catch limits and 6 different gear limits in order to answer crabbers questions. It is a concern that people may be so put off by regulatory complexity and the personal uncertainty of legality that they may just go watch television rather than deal with fishing.

We certainly appreciate your suggestions and will take them into consideration when trying to further simplify our regulations. If you have any further comments or questions, please feel free to contact the regulatory staff at (410)260-8260.



Regards, Harley Speir hspeir@dnr.state.md.us


1. The thinking is that if you buy a license, you get a large share. Hmmm, good let's make ther Rockfish license optional so those that don't want to spend they're money will no tbuy a licens and can't catch as many. That has to help the population some. Further more, it's a $5 license, or $2 if they already have a fishing licens (which most probably do) For God's sake, the chicken people are buying for bait for a day's outing costs more than a season long license.

2. Want people to learn young and carry on the tradition??????? What about hunting. We want that tradition carried on and the same for fishing, but they both have MANDATORY licenses once you turn 16. OK, so lets adopt a few days like pointed out above and we can call them "Crab for FREE Days"

3. The regs are so complicated that even the office responsible for fielding our calls had to draw up a matrix with all of the possible scenarios. Shouldn't that tell them something.

[Antman40]

Chris, I tried to read it but I just could not get this paragraph out of my head:confused:

"The thinking is that those people buying a license should have a larger share of the resource than those not buying. However, crabbing and eating crabs is a tradition for all Marylanders regardless of social or economic status and therefore those people unable to buy a license should be able to harvest enough for at least a meal for a family. "

Unable to pay $5 for a license? I just find that hard to believe.......a pack of chicken necks is about $2-$3, string or twine $1-$2........this isn't even using traps or rings. I'm not buying that.....it might "read" good, or sound good in theory but IMO it's BS.

I'll read it again when I get that sticking point out of my head:)

Thanks for sharing the letter.

Tony

[done workin]

When you get to the bottom, that was one of the big issues that I had as well. He goes on to say that they want young people to be able to enjoy the sport and not be financially burdoned by having to buy a license therefore prolonging the interest in the sport.

My 3 big issues are outlined at the bottom, that being one of them.

Give me a F_____G break, that was a politically correct answer to the general population. A bunch of BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris

[mikehn]

These things are written by lawyers. They have to make it confusing. What did you all expect?

[mbgeaz]

imo i don't think it's fair to shorten rec lines. why does it matter what the length of line if the limit is the same. and i think i work hard enough to go on a crabbing trip already. that would mean more gas, longer days, and a lot more whining from the misses ;) i don't get a chance to go crabbing very often and when i do, i'd like to catch more than just one bushel(when it's possible). they go pretty quickly once the family gets wind of your catch.(moochers)plus i like cold crabs just as much, if not better than hot ones. heck, by the time i get done crabbing, i usually am too tired to eat em that day anyway cause i get to clean up the gear, then cook em, then clean up the mess.